Mapping out The City.

Fish Preferred on 19/10/2013 at 22:36

I would like to draw your collective attentions to a few small details that seem to be of some import.

Map Inconsistencies: There are several of these, mostly in TDS. They are usually a 90 degree discrepancy between the map orientation and the compass. Sain Edgar's, Shalebridge Cradle, Docks, and Abysmal Gale all have this discrepancy. I view this as significant because it really is just one discrepancy. In all of these areas, the North point of the compass faces East. What makes this even more interesting is that the stars in the T2 sky are also rotated 90 degrees, so that North faces East.

I propose that Old Quarter doesn't need to be stretched around Stonemarket because on the true map (from which the developers designed the City in-game) South Quarter is already to the South.

Doc_Brown on 25/10/2013 at 17:15

Quote Posted by Fish Preferred

They are usually a 90 degree discrepancy between the map orientation and the compass.

The developers admitted to that oversight, so I think we're safe ignoring the compass when orienting the affected levels.

Quote Posted by Fish Preferred

I propose that Old Quarter doesn't need to be stretched around Stonemarket because on the true map (from which the developers designed the City in-game) South Quarter is already to the South.

True map? No one outside of the development team has ever seen it, hence the reason this project exists in the first place. In any event, the stretching of Old Quarter was a concession we made to address the inconsistencies mashing together the various in-game maps brought about.

Fish Preferred on 26/10/2013 at 03:48

Quote Posted by Doc_Brown

In any event, the stretching of Old Quarter was a concession we made to address the inconsistencies mashing together the various in-game maps brought about.

Yes, but the 90 degree rotation accounts for a great many of these inconsistencies. It is further supported by the map seen in the "nuthief" trailer (yes, I know it is not canon, but it is highly suggestive), which also has a compass rose oriented in this way. With this in mind, I have compiled a number of maps of varying scale and layout. Here are a few:

(http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/File:SpecMap1.jpg)
(http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/File:SpecMap2.jpg)

You may notice that there are some anomalies. Gamall's lair, for example, is jutting out into the river, but this actually complies with the distance between Auldale and the bridge to Old Quarter in-game. I've also separated the Pagan Sanctuary from South Quarter because the entrance is clearly not via the same well and there is no giant tree bordering the gate to Stonemarket.

Doc_Brown on 7/11/2013 at 23:29

Wait, so you're suggesting that the incorrectly oriented maps/compasses/skies be treated as fact? Even though there is at least one instance of a developer saying this is a mistake? And doesn't that create discrepencies with all of the other levels where the map/compass/sky is oriented correctly?

cragscleft7 on 8/11/2013 at 22:11

Quote Posted by Fish Preferred

Gamall's lair, for example, is jutting out into the river, but this actually complies with the distance between Auldale and the bridge to Old Quarter in-game.

You can see the Bridge to Old Quarter in-game? Or is it just any bridge?

Quote Posted by Fish Preferred

I've also separated the Pagan Sanctuary from South Quarter because the entrance is clearly not via the same well and there is no giant tree bordering the gate to Stonemarket.

When you jump into a well and fall out of a well then, it's most obviously because it is the same well. You have to find good reasons for saying it is not the same well.

Fish Preferred on 10/11/2013 at 02:49

Quote Posted by cragscleft7

You can see the Bridge to Old Quarter in-game? Or is it just any bridge?

Yes, the bridge is at the end of the passage behind the gate to Old Quarter. The fog makes it hard to see, but I've found a way to get close, as you can see from these pictures I took while playing TDS on the XBox.
(http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/File:100_0194.JPG)
(http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/File:Bridge1.JPG)

Quote Posted by cragscleft7

When you jump into a well and fall out of a well then, it's most obviously because it is the same well. You have to find good reasons for saying it is not the same well.

The well in South Quarter is the rustic wooden type with a little roof over it.
(http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/File:TDS_enter_pagansanctuary.jpg)

The well in the Pagan tunnels is a metal shaft with a clear view of the sky.
you can see this on Lytha's "Let's Sneak: Thief Deadly Shadows, pt. 18 - Pagan Sanctuary" (3:56 - 4:37).

downwinder on 10/11/2013 at 03:41

also are you going to let people know where the access point is to the maw and thieves den, and where mage towers are located and the opera house in song of the caverns,i guess you could go from mission 1 of thief 1 and find all kinds of places that do not disclose the locations.

and if the maw in the first thief is the same maw in the second thief

i would go on and on but i think my point is made.

Fish Preferred on 10/11/2013 at 18:47

Your point may be there, but it lacks clarity. I am not claiming to know the precise location of the Overlord's Fancy or the Mage Towers. Nor do I see any reason for the Maw to show up anywhere on a map of the City.
The opera house is shown on the maps I made (it's the big beige square with the squigly grey protrusion).

downwinder on 12/11/2013 at 06:34

Quote Posted by Fish Preferred

so what determines what area would be on map,would it be the mission location or the area the mission is in?

i think a map would show all places garrett has been to?

is it even possible to make a map that would have ever place from t1/tg/t2/t3?

or is it possible to add quotes to some area's to add famous places all thief players would know? as in maw entrance/via the lost caves

also i had a idea to get shape of each area,if you can use a fly over and screen shot area then shrink it mini to place on map then it would even even show mini layout,making it seem like almost a blue print

Fish Preferred on 12/11/2013 at 17:07

The locations I have placed on my maps are those which are known to be associated with the districts involved in TDS. That is what determines what is included on them.

The Maw is a separate realm altogether and cannot have a solitary immobile access point, or else Garrett would have been familiar with the geography of Beck-o'-the-Wills. I do not recall any mention of lost caves, so you may need to direct me to the quotes you're referring to.

Overhead screenshots would not be practical for T1, TG, or T2 because of rendering limitations. I'm not sure about TDS.