Mapping out The City. - by Digital Nightfall
Doc_Brown on 13/11/2013 at 17:01
Quote Posted by downwinder
also i had a idea to get shape of each area,if you can use a fly over and screen shot area then shrink it mini to place on map then it would even even show mini layout,making it seem like almost a blue print
Uh.... we already have those. They're what the various map iterations you see are using.
Quote Posted by Doc_Brown
Using the editors for all three games in the series, forum member Sxerks created overhead blueprints of every single level, correctly scaled to one another.
Mugla on 15/11/2013 at 20:40
If we're to talk about it, I agree with the sentiment that we could have multiple interpretations of the evidence. Looking at Fish Preferred's stuff, it could be that his/her map would be an alternative to the previous version, given different weights to each piece of evidence.
I haven't given it a thorough scrutiny yet though.
Doc_Brown on 27/11/2013 at 16:01
The question is, should we? Considering how many possible variations there can be, wasn't the purpose of this project to come up with a single interpretation that best fit everyone's needs?
Having said that, I'm not opposed to making the switch to Fish's version. If we do move in that direction, though, I'd still like to address my previous concerns about it:
Quote Posted by Doc_Brown
Wait, so you're suggesting that the incorrectly oriented maps/compasses/skies be treated as fact? Even though there is at least one instance of a developer saying this is a mistake? And doesn't that create discrepencies with all of the other levels where the map/compass/sky is oriented correctly?
demagogue on 27/11/2013 at 17:22
I don't think there's anything wrong with having branch or fork versions alongside a main version. I mean that's a good way to handle it IMO -- and the typical way for open source / community projects -- a main trunk "community" version & fork or branch "local" versions.
There are a few things I disagreed with the main branch and could have my own fork too, but I understood the reasoning & evidence behind everything in the community version so thought it was at least justified, and the disagreements were small compared to how much thought was put on the whole that I agreed with.
I mean what distinguishes the community version is it's gone through community vetting over a period. People propose local changes that start off as a branch, then it goes through the vetting, and if it passes muster then the community agrees to update the main version with that change. That long vetting process is the value of a community project, so I think it's good to privilege it. But I don't think we should presume to "forbid" alt versions, just recognize them as fork versions that are healthy food for thought and worth thinking about if anything should update the main version.
Edit: For the record, I'm on board that the compass issues are the equivalent of a typo in a novel, so the translation from "game world reality" to "media" is a mismatch we can correct to get a more accurate picture of the world reality (which is what the map should really be after). So that's why I agreed with the way our map dealt with it.
Fish Preferred on 27/11/2013 at 20:12
Quote Posted by Doc_Brown
Wait, so you're suggesting that the incorrectly oriented maps/compasses/skies be treated as fact? Even though there is at least one instance of a developer saying this is a mistake? And doesn't that create discrepencies with all of the other levels where the map/compass/sky is oriented correctly?
1 Yes; fact or at least plausible scenario.
2 Not really; as Randy himself stated on page 4, misinformation was intentionally woven into the games. Therefore, "uhhhhh woops" could just as easily be interpreted as "damn, we must have missed that when we turned everything around".
3 Not necessarily. I haven't personally been able to check the star map in every mission, so I can't vouch for the consistency of that, but in all map/compass orientations of the placeable areas, it is always either North or East with respect to the Big Thief 3 Map (BT3M).
Anything from T2 which has both map and compass aligned with the sky can be assumed to be correctly oriented. These would be Truart Estate and Gervaisius Estate, according to jermi (in the (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130094&page=2) Proper Stars thread). T1 and TDS areas don't have a reliable sky pattern (that I know of, at least) so we may never know how to position many of them, but playable districts and anything directly linked to them would still have to be either 0 or 90 degrees from the BT3M compass rose.
From an in-universe perspective, there are three explanations for this:
1 Certain parts of The City are located in regions rich in magnetite or other strongly ferromagnetic ore, which has caused amateur cartographers to mark their maps incorrectly.
2 The planet has undergone a partial geomagnetic reversal and these local discrepancies reflect the slow and uneven rearrangement of the core. The BT3M, in all its forms, would have been drawn very near the end of the reversal event.
3 A Pagan god did it.
Doc_Brown on 4/12/2013 at 16:41
Quote Posted by demagogue
There are a few things I disagreed with the main branch and could have my own fork too, but I understood the reasoning & evidence behind everything in the community version so thought it was at least justified, and the disagreements were small compared to how much thought was put on the whole that I agreed with.
I'd be interested in hearing them, actually, if for no other reason than that this thread has been relatively quiet for some time now.
P.S. You may have mentioned them in the past and I've just forgotten, so apologies if that's the case. This thread has grown to such an unwieldy size that trying to find specific info within it has become an arduous task.
Squadarofl on 7/2/2014 at 00:49
The map of NuThief has just been leaked :
Inline Image:
http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2014/06/1391734008-map-1.jpg
The blurred words are CINDERFALL/FELL (?) at the top and MOIRIA SANITARIUM at the bottomWhat do you think of it ? I remember something about the devs saying it's the original city map but with the dayport quarter switched to the west side
Elentari on 7/2/2014 at 01:19
It looks pretty much in keeping with the TDS map, doesn't it? Except that its missing Shalebridge. (That was a section of the city, wasn't it? I seem to recall that being an entire section.) Its also missing the "New Quarter" or whatever that was, also introduced in TDS.
The Moiria Sanitarium looks like its where the Moiria mansion was in TDS. A 'continuation' of the story, perhaps.
All in all, it looks ok. . .except for those missing sections. It looks more or less in keeping from what we already knew. But the city looks *WAY* smaller than it ever did before. . .which I don't really like, personally. Doesn't look like it has all that much room for whats already happened now.
Doc_Brown on 11/2/2014 at 05:04
Hm. Based on this and other evidence, the new Thief is looking increasingly like a requel.
Interesting.
