Mapping out The City. - by Digital Nightfall
Elentari on 17/3/2014 at 23:44
From what it sounds like. . .they could have done their 'new city' plot a whole lot LESS messy, if they'd just renamed the character. Since he's clearly not "our" Garrett anyway, why didn't they just call him Bob and say its a few hundred years after Garrett, and get on with things? I mean, it would have simplified matters for everyone. Probably caused a fair bit less frustration for fans too. :tsktsk: (And no, I haven't had a chance to play the new game yet. From what I'm hearing, I'm not all that eager to. I'll probably pick it up at some point, but I'm waiting for the price to drop drastically on steam first.)
I'd suggest that for the mapping project, the new game is just disregarded and the City as the first three games has it is the 'true' map. For the simple reason, that its very unlikely that the fans will have much to do with this 'new take' on the city once they've played the game. If there's to be no editing tools released, no additional content, etc. People will pretty much play the game, toss it to the back of their closets and move back to the first three games (and the Dark Mod, although, according to its documentation its not the Thief universe, which is probably my only complaint about it) which continue to grow with fan-missions, and content.
If, for whatever reason, the 'new' areas of the new game want to be incorporated. . .then places could be found for them on the 'real' map. I mean, I have to admit, the name 'Cinderfall' is kinda good. Though it does not seem to match the rest of the City's names all that well.
Just my thoughts so far, anyway.
Baggins on 17/3/2014 at 23:51
Quote Posted by Elentari
If, for whatever reason, the 'new' areas of the new game want to be incorporated. . .then places could be found for them on the 'real' map. I mean, I have to admit, the name 'Cinderfall' is kinda good. Though it does not seem to match the rest of the City's names all that well.
Just my thoughts so far, anyway.
Cinderfall is a factory district set up by Elias Northcrest and Theodore Eastwick in the last 25 years. It apparently used to be part of Stone Market at one time. It's called cinderfall because of all the ash and soot that falls from factories. In particular the Elias main Ironworks.
Other interesting nods is that in Dayport, The Keep is built in about the same area where Angelwatch once stood, and its right next to Carlysle Court where Castle Carlysle stood in Thief 2. It's explained though that new Dayport's architecture was designed by Eastwick, and he has his own mansion there as well.
What I think I like the most about the new Thief is that every main area is broken down into many subdistricts. Stonemarket has Mourningside, Blackfurrow, Stonemarket Plaza, Muddler's Row and Grandmauden (passes into Dayport as well) to name a few. Some of these are named after nearby roads, but the districts break down into even smaller roads, courts, and alleys each with their own names. It really does give a sense of scale to the city. Baron's Way is a subdistrict that passes through several districts including Stone Market and South Quarter. But just think if they had been this imaginative and set the game back in the classic era! Let classic Garret have an adventure exploring a city of its scale...
Cori on 17/3/2014 at 23:57
Quote Posted by Elentari
From what it sounds like. . .they could have done their 'new city' plot a whole lot LESS messy, if they'd just renamed the character. Since he's clearly not "our" Garrett anyway, why didn't they just call him Bob and say its a few hundred years after Garrett, and get on with things? I mean, it would have simplified matters for everyone. Probably caused a fair bit less frustration for fans too. :tsktsk: (And no, I haven't had a chance to play the new game yet. From what I'm hearing, I'm not all that eager to. I'll probably pick it up at some point, but I'm waiting for the price to drop drastically on steam first.)
Yeah...personally, I enjoyed the game, but it just doesn't have the same feel or quality that the previous games had. It's a solid stealth game, with a few unavoidable action sequences (one of my points of contention with the game), but it's not really...'Thief'. It pulls off really great atmosphere most of the time, but that atmosphere unfortunately doesn't have anywhere to go because of the weak plot and hit-and-miss level design.
Quote Posted by Baggins
What I think I like the most about the new Thief is that every main area is broken down into many subdistricts. Stonemarket has Mourningside, Blackfurrow, Stonemarket Plaza, Muddler's Row and Grandmauden (passes into Dayport as well) to name a few. Some of these are named after nearby roads, but the districts break down into even smaller roads, courts, and alleys each with their own names. It really does give a sense of scale to the city. Baron's Way is a subdistrict that passes through several districts including Stone Market and South Quarter. But just think if they had been this imaginative and set the game back in the classic era! Let classic Garret have an adventure exploring a city of its scale...
I liked that too! It would probably be possible to incorporate subdistricts into the trilogy map, once everyone's satisfied with the district placement.
Baggins on 18/3/2014 at 00:03
Quote Posted by Cori
Yeah...personally, I enjoyed the game, but it just doesn't have the same feel or quality that the previous games had. It's a solid stealth game, with a few unavoidable action sequences (one of my points of contention with the game), but it's not really...'Thief'. It pulls off really great atmosphere most of the time, but that atmosphere unfortunately doesn't have anywhere to go because of the weak plot and hit-and-miss level design.
I think its a game with a love and hate kind of thing going on... Like a abusive relationship... There are some things that are absolutely great and you want to go back for more. There are some neat original ideas, that might actually be nice added to a game with more scope (I actually liked seeing my arms, and full body awareness in the game). But then there are things that are painful and drive you up the wall, or just fall flat... The abusive bits... There are things that hint at what it could have been, but never quite reaches... Sound issues, sounds are not nearly as interactive as in previous games etc.
I'll admit I kinda liked some of new Garrett's wisecracks, and his voice was not too bad. But its probably a good thing that they didn't have the lines being spoken by Russell, as they either not up to the quality of old material, or at least much different personality, that wouldn't have fit Russell, and would have probably come out flat.
Vae on 18/3/2014 at 00:12
It's best to disregard a lesser derivative...and one that is inconsistent with the true THIEF Universe...Let those who wish to tinker with NuVerse, do so in isolation where no unwelcome impurities can result...lest they create an abomination.
In time, more will be revealed on these universe inconsistencies.
Baggins on 18/3/2014 at 00:15
Quote Posted by Vae
It's best to disregard a lesser derivative...and one that is inconsistent with the true THIEF Universe...Let those who wish to tinker with NuVerse, do so in isolation where no unwelcome impurities can result...lest they create an abomination.
Or thine Hammers will come and smite thee, thus sayeth The Builder.
Elentari on 18/3/2014 at 00:19
Quote Posted by Baggins
What I think I like the most about the new Thief is that every main area is broken down into many subdistricts. Stonemarket has Mourningside, Blackfurrow, Stonemarket Plaza, Muddler's Row and Grandmauden (passes into Dayport as well) to name a few. Some of these are named after nearby roads, but the districts break down into even smaller roads, courts, and alleys each with their own names. It really does give a sense of scale to the city. Baron's Way is a subdistrict that passes through several districts including Stone Market and South Quarter. But just think if they had been this imaginative and set the game back in the classic era! Let classic Garret have an adventure exploring a city of its scale...
See? That actually sounds good. . .and something that kind of makes sense if the City is as large as we've always figured it was. You don't break something that big up into large chunks, then leave it - it would be broken up into smaller 'internal' areas too, and then broken down further by streets, houses, (cobblestones, sand grains. . .ok, now I'm just getting silly : ))
So maybe, with the community's agreement, some of that could be 'saved' and put into the map as well. (No. . .not the LITTLE stuff like streets, thats probably getting a bit *TOO* detailed), but general placement of some of the district areas. Just to complicate things, naturally! : )
So, maybe, "Cinderfall" can't be kept (name makes sense now you explained it), but some of the sub-district . . .stuff. . .could be.
Basically. . .pull the new game apart, use what can be used, toss the rest as salvageable and let it remain 'just a game'. *shrugs* Talking about for the map, too, not actual resources, etc.
Wasn't there actual talk at some point, as well, about incorporating some of the better-known fan-mission locations? Such as Lampfire Hills and. . .and. . .such places as I can't recall now.
Vae on 18/3/2014 at 00:19
Quote Posted by Baggins
Or thine Hammers will come and smite thee, thus sayeth The Builder.
That would only happen in the true THIEF Universe.
Logical deduction and inconsistent universe construction reveal the fundamental incongruities...not arbitrary fanaticism, like you insinuate.
Baggins on 18/3/2014 at 00:20
No sense of humor, Spock.
Vae on 18/3/2014 at 00:25
An emoticon would have helped...:)
You'd be surprised at how many people use that kind of ad hom to try and win an argument.
