Mapping out The City. - by Digital Nightfall
Baggins on 18/3/2014 at 00:29
Quote Posted by Elentari
See? That actually sounds good. . .and something that kind of makes sense if the City is as large as we've always figured it was. You don't break something that big up into large chunks, then leave it - it would be broken up into smaller 'internal' areas too, and then broken down further by streets, houses, (cobblestones, sand grains. . .ok, now I'm just getting silly : ))
It actually does break down to houses, past the street level. Not every house, but a nice selection of hovels. Many tied to Basso missions. Most of them are not spectacular or large. There are couple of interesting ones though, like the Mourningside Undertaker's place that goes down three levels, and has a secret catacombs underneath. Also many of the houses are owned by some very weird people... One person is into taxidermy and it implies he has moved onto humans... A butcher who maybe packing human flesh as 'jerky', another person looks like he has turned his house into a torture dungeon, etc. Not large places, but they have 'character' and unique quality to them. Interesting side stories through documents and mission backstory, and Garrett's commentary.
Baggins on 18/3/2014 at 00:30
Quote Posted by Vae
An emoticon would have helped...:)
You'd be surprised at how many people use that kind of ad hom to try and win an argument.
Have you seen a hammerite smile? ;) I was trying to be in character. :mad: (would have been too much I think)
Elentari on 18/3/2014 at 01:18
Quote Posted by Baggins
Have you seen a hammerite smile? ;)
I think the burricks ate their humour. None of them even crack a joke. They probably think humour is from the Trickster.
Baggins on 18/3/2014 at 22:59
I haven't read the entire thread. But did you discuss about how the Keeper Map, and the Assassin's Map overlap each other?
The walls exist in both, but in the time that the keeper's map was made, and the time Garrett lived there, their are some definite differences (there is over 50 years between the maps).
Most of the river in Keeper map is gone, as are the tributaries. In Assassin's map that river is mostly built over and what's left bends around differently. What is left is now a canal. Differences in roads and perhaps scale of roads. Bigger roads? In the old tight paths? The wall between Old Quarter and Downtowne is gone.
Garrett's "Home Turf" itself is said to be in South Quarter when you read Ramirez's To Do list in the same level.
Quote:
Garrett - South Quarter 'independent' thief. Denied cut three
times. Sent Quince and Jacow out to shorten him.
I would think that this river passing through the areas is not "The River", "Great River" or whatever people want to call it, but a different river in the city. By the time Garrett is living there, its mostly gone. Flowing under the city. It may be referred to as The Canal in Thief 1?
Inline Image:
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071214025334/thief/images/2/25/Keeper_map_tg.jpgInline Image:
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080107174812/thief/images/6/6b/TG_M5_map_PAGE001.jpgThis appears to be the river that Thief 4 calls the "Shady Vein" its in about the right spots at least for being an underground river in South Quarter. But ya in Thief 4 Old Quarter and South Quarters locations are basically switched/rerversed in direction from each other.
Baggins on 18/3/2014 at 23:28
Then I wonder, is it possible if they had originally intended the house in Thief 2 on the northside of "Wayside", to possibly be the same location as Thief 1. Which would then make Wayside more or less south of South Quarter, and Wayside Dock District more or less the same region as the "Docks" also mentioned in Thief 1. It would possibly place Shalebridge essentially east of South Quarter, south of Downtowne, and north east of Wayside.
Inline Image:
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080107173955/thief/images/7/73/T2_M5_map_PAGE002.jpgBut Thief: Deadly Shadows really truncated a lot of things, and shifted things as well.
But there is another possibility... If you place all the locations visited in Thief: Deadly Shadows east of the maps visited in Thief 1 and Thief 2 (this is not perfect under any stretch of the matter as South Quarter and Old Quarter switch places between Thief 1 and Thief 3). You can have the main River east of the river in Thief 1 (that had been built over by Garrett's time anyways). This means Audale is a region east of all the regions in Thief 1/2, that Auldale St in the Sealed Section could still lead to Audale off screen, and over the river. Stone Market would be a district east of both South Quarter.
The only issue I see here is it might require that Old Quarter be divided up into a couple of regions with regions in between. With part of Old Quarter North, being northeast of South Quarter as in the Thief 1 maps (roughly northwest of Stonemarket), and Old Quarter South (being east of South Quarter, and south of Stonemarket).
The Docks would be a different region east of Wayside Dock District.
Shalebridge Cradle would not necessarily be in Shalebridge. Shalebridge may be split up like Old Quarter as well.
This still leaves Eastport (east of Audale, east of the Docks?), and Dayport, and Shoalgate to deal with.
Inline Image:
http://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/thief-deadly-shadows/2/2e/Map-city-complete.jpgIronically, Thief 4 would appear to place Old Quarter in a third place... West of South Quarter... South Quarter West? Thief 4 or companion app also speaks of a section of the city falling into the sea by the time of the story during the Tempest, or some earthquake I think... Which also changes a lot of things by that time as well (actually that might shave off half the southern city including Wayside, and those bottles of Wayside Dock District Rum? Maybe a few centuries old). But no need to worry about these details, if we stick to the original series only.
Vae on 19/3/2014 at 01:30
Yes, I agree...no need to substantiate a confused, incongruent creation, by giving it any undeserved legitimacy.
In time, NuThief will be rejected for the mockery that it is...and slowly fade away like a sad song, without a community to keep it alive.
Cori on 19/3/2014 at 01:48
Baggins, this has all been discussed to an extent in previous pages of the thread. If you'd like, (
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i106/jtr7/herewego32tt8.gif) here's the most recent layout of the districts I was able to find in the thread--a lot of image links were broken.
This map takes into consideration all three games in the trilogy, and tries to fit the different missions into proper areas. Shalebridge was decided to be one of the bridges crossing the main river, and the surrounding neighborhoods. Old Quarter is one large district with a large chunk taken out of it by Stonemarket.
The map that I posted a couple pages back was a much earlier map created by str8g8, when people were considering putting Shalebridge near the north part of the city.
Edit: I should mention that suggestions to split districts in the past have not been received well by other people, either.
Baggins on 19/3/2014 at 02:05
Ya, that seems to make a bit more sense, how Old Quarter is divided. The only issues being Wayside, New Quarter, North Quarter, Dayport, Shoalsgate, and East Port, as I don't think those have been shown in regards to other locations in the games. North Quarter could be farther north for all we know, above Old Quarter even.
That map seems to put Wayside and Docks in the same district but opposite sides.
On a side note, nothing in Thief 1 or 2 is called a district other than a few references.
The "north districts" in an unused note in Bafford's Manor.
The Wayside Dock District, Dayport North District, and Dayport South District in thief 2, and the use of 'Warehouse district' as well.
In general the term the earlier game uses is 'territory' I think, and that's mainly from the city wardens comments in Assassins.
It's Thief: Deadly Shadows that really used the term 'districts' with any strict meaning. Which also means what we think may be 'districts' could be also possibly be subdivisions, buroughs, or sub districts in other major 'districts'.
Cori on 19/3/2014 at 02:08
I was under the impression that 'the docks' were a part of Wayside, not a separate district.
