Mapping out The City. - by Digital Nightfall
Baggins on 19/3/2014 at 02:30
Quote Posted by Cori
I was under the impression that 'the docks' were a part of Wayside, not a separate district.
In Thief 1 Gold, Docks are mentioned as their own district alongside most of the ones we know of in Thief 2, in two letters. No mention of Wayside, or Wayside docks, though.
But you get at least as "territories";
◾Raputo - North Quarter, Shalebridge, New Quarter and Newmarket
◾Webster - Docks, Eastport and Dayport
Additionally, Ramirez lives in Hightowne, and his To Do list lists Stonemarket and South Quarter.
Thief 2 introduces Wayside and Wayside Dock District.
Thief 3 uses the "Docks" and "Stonemarket" from Thief 1.
I have no idea if they are meant to be the same place or not. They do have differences of course. I don't know of Thief 3 even mentions Wayside or not. It kinda loses Eastport, and Newmarket, New Quarter, and North Quarter, and introduces Auldale which was previously only a road in the Sealed Section.
Baggins on 19/3/2014 at 02:36
For minor thief 4 comparison. Theif 4 implies possibly three sets of Docks. One on the shores of Old Quarter where Orion is building his ship.
Then Riverside Docks. I have a strong impression are intended to be the Docks from Thief 3, and are the docks listed on the Thief 4 concept map.
Then finally Wayside Dock District mentioned on the Markham's Rum. No hint to where its located.
One possibility that the game might imply though in its 'interpretation' is that Riverside Docks are inside the river, and Wayside Docks might be on Oceanside.
It also mentions Eastport and it being near water as well. Which we can assume they see as another 'port' as well.
Cori on 19/3/2014 at 02:42
I am strongly opposed to using any information from Thief 2014 as a point of reference for the trilogy map. We've already seen that Thief 2014 made radical changes to the previous canon maps, such as the moving of an entire district.
Baggins on 19/3/2014 at 02:44
Quote Posted by Cori
I am strongly opposed to using any information from Thief 2014 as a point of reference for the trilogy map. We've already seen that Thief 2014 made radical changes to the previous canon maps, such as the moving of an entire district.
I wasn't using it as a point of reference for understanding the old map. I was just trying to explain where it takes things in its 'interpretation'.
Honestly I think thief 3 also has the 'moved' entire district issues as well, LOL. Plus possibly elimination of districts/territories.
There is also completely different feel between Thief 1/2 and what 3 did.
Elentari on 19/3/2014 at 02:47
Just as as a note: in a city this size, with such a fair bit of it bordering on water of some kind, there are probably a LOT of 'docks' in general. Minor businesses that have their own pier for supplies to come into, there's probably docks near the north of the city for whatever river-trade there is, and the entire coastal side of the city would be riddled with docks and piers of various sizes. The question would be, which of these would be part of a noted 'district' (Such as the Wayside Docks), and which would just be unnoted on any map in whatever district they are in when they're built. Or at least not on a city-large map. District maps, might note them.
A lot of 'Docks' you mention below (except the Wayside which WERE referenced in 3, and you spend time playing there, and yes, they were on the oceanside. . .not the river) could fall into those smaller categories. A private shipyard/project pier would not effect a district's shaping. It'd just. . .be in whichever its in. Never heard of Riverside Docks. . .though thats a rather generic name for a dock on a river. . .*coughs*
Quote Posted by Baggins
For minor thief 4 comparison. Their 4 implies possibly three sets of Docks. One on the shores of Old Quarter where Orion is building his ship.
Then Riverside Docks. I have a strong impression are intended to be the Docks from Thief 3, and are the docks listed on the Thief 4 concept map.
Then finally Wayside Dock District mentioned on the Markham's Rum. No hint to where its located.
One possibility that the game might imply though in its 'interpretation' is that Riverside Docks are inside the river, and Wayside Docks might be on Oceanside.
Baggins on 19/3/2014 at 02:53
Riverside is a complete new district created for the game, its part of a super region of South Quarter/Riverside (two separate districts). This is an East-West river, and not the same river as Great River, as far as I can tell. Riverside is where Erin once lived in the old Carlysle Mill. The implication here, being that this is one of the original City districts. There is also Customs House from Baron Marlham's time in Riverside, and another old tavern from 200 or so years ago.
For trivia sake.
Cori on 19/3/2014 at 03:01
While there would no doubt be docks and piers along the river in the City, especially since the river is supposed to be rather large, I don't think 'Riverside' should be a district included in our trilogy map. Nor should we include an east-west 'river'.
There WOULD be canals going through the city, which is something else str8g8 was working on in the past, but they would not be classified as 'rivers'.
Baggins on 19/3/2014 at 03:04
THe only other river we can be possibly certain of, is the river in the Keeper Map, and that has been built over by the time of Assassins/Lost City. Which is also called a river in the mission objectives. BUt some people call it a 'canal' (is this in DromEd brushes? or description based on its appearance?). By the the Assassin's map what little is exposed appears to flow east to west around a bend, before heading south again (I don't know about 'in the level itself' as compasses tend to be wonky at best).
Quote:
The sealed entrance to the Lost City is supposed to be at the bottom of the river around here somewhere. Getting past that is the first step.
This river for all intents and purposes flows mostly underground.
Elentari on 19/3/2014 at 03:14
I agree, Cori - given what we already discussed that Thief 2014 (good thing to call it, btw) is in a dubious future from when the first trilogy/fanmissions, etc are all, I'd say never mind as well. Or, if for some reason someone wanted to include them - include them in some smaller form, such a as a subdistrict - which could, over time, grow and change to take over and be a district of its own. Or not, depending on how history played out. So it could be there, but not effect the maps of our 'current' timeline.
Actually, there IS grounds for belief of a river through the city. If you look at the map, there are three 'big'/major bridges between Old quarter and north quarter, and auldale and old quarter and Shalebridge and Dayport. I believe there are 'glimpses' of this river in some of the cut scenes of the first two games. (Can't remember which game it was, honestly. Its been awhile since I played the originals all the way through) and some of the fanmissions have you playing on one of the big bridges. . .breaking into shops built along it.
I *think*, but I'm not positive, that the canals stem from this 'major' river and run around the city from there. (Although why, I have no idea. Maybe the ground was marshy and this was the way to contain that? I don't know. I'm no architecht. :))
*Edit: Pardon me!!! Now that I reread, I see you said *east-to-west* river. Not north-to-south. Pfft. This is what I get for getting involved in a discussion while I'm sick. Not only am I muddled off the computer, apparently my 'virtual' directions are muddled as well. I think I'll consider heading back to bed now. . .lol
Baggins on 19/3/2014 at 03:17
Quote Posted by Elentari
Actually, there IS grounds for belief of a river through the city. If you look at the map, there are three 'big'/major bridges between Old quarter and north quarter, and auldale and old quarter and Shalebridge and Dayport. I believe there are 'glimpses' of this river in some of the cut scenes of the first two games. (Can't remember which game it was, honestly. Its been awhile since I played the originals all the way through) and some of the fanmissions have you playing on one of the big bridges. . .breaking into shops built along it.
I *think*, but I'm not positive, that the canals stem from this 'major' river and run around the city from there. (Although why, I have no idea. Maybe the ground was marshy and this was the way to contain that? I don't know. I'm no architecht. :))
There are scenes of a river in Thief 2 in cutscenes, IIRC. I don't remember the context of those cutscenes however or locations.
There is a reference to a river in Shalebridge, being low enough you can walk across it IIRC due to a drought. Most assume this is probably the Great River?
