Mapping out The City. - by Digital Nightfall
Cori on 19/3/2014 at 03:19
Yeah, I was rejecting an east-west river, not a north-south one. Even before Deadly Shadows released a vague map of the overall city (which finally showed us the entire river), there was talk--and confirmation from game devs--of a river splitting the city in two.
Quote Posted by Baggins
There are scenes of a river in Thief 2 in cutscenes, IIRC. I don't remember the context of those cutscenes however or locations.
There is a reference to a river in Shalebridge, being low enough you can walk across it IIRC due to a drought. Most assume this is probably the Great River?
The conversation you're referring to was another thing that was discussed heavily in this thread.
Baggins on 19/3/2014 at 03:21
Quote Posted by Cori
Yeah, I was rejecting an east-west river, not a north-south one. Even before Deadly Shadows released a vague map of the overall city (which finally showed us the entire river), there was talk--and confirmation from game devs--of a river splitting the city in two.
Yet, the river in Thief 1 is different. It flows underground, and it hardly 'splits' the city in two. People assume its a canal, but its clearly listed as a river. As far as I know it mostly flows north to south, except for that bend you can see on the Assassin's map.
It also can't be explained away that there is a drought the water is low, because if that was the case, the city would be flooded if it was much higher (or at least those streets between Garrett's Home Turf in South Quarter and Ramirez's manor would be flooded.)!
Cori on 19/3/2014 at 03:24
Quote Posted by Baggins
Yet, the river in Thief 1 is different. It flows underground, and it hardly 'splits' the city in two. People assume its a canal, but its clearly listed as a river. As far as I know it mostly flows north to south, except for that bend you can see on the Assassin's map.
I'm pretty sure the underground river in that mission is completely different from 'The River' that is actually talked about in the game among NPCs. What purpose does an underground river have? It's clearly been forgotten about and unmaintained for years.
Plus, like I said, we have word from one of the game devs themselves that "there's a big friggin' river running right
through the city and splitting it in two". This statement was made way back in 2001.
Elentari on 19/3/2014 at 03:25
Quote Posted by Cori
The conversation you're referring to was another thing that was discussed heavily in this thread.
You're probably the most up-to-date on this conversation than anyone right now, having recently read through it. :) I know I did read through it when it was much smaller, and have been keeping tabs on it since, but its easier to forget whats been gone over in the following years.
Basically, yeah. I agree with the current map-layout, would not mind squishing some new stuff in, but I don't believe any major changes are really in order given what I understand this new game to be, unless one of the mappers is wants to work some of the stuff in on a smaller scale (subdistricts, businesses, roads, etc) that could in a few hundred years grow to be what they are referenced to be in T2014. . .but . . .honestly, I don't see it being that hugely necessary, either. Unless this new game turns out to be more long-lived than its showing the potential for. . .I'd really rather see fan-mission locations added 'formally' instead.
Baggins on 19/3/2014 at 03:27
Oh the other river is certainly maintained! They bothered to keep up the stone work around it! It seems to be the local water source for that part of town. At this point its been heavily altered through man made intervention! Hence why some fans assume its a canal! Garrett knew enough to know its a river!
You also pass by the secret entrance to the Lost City in a bend in the river in at least two levels! Heh, one of which you get to unlock it..
Vae on 19/3/2014 at 03:28
Quote Posted by Elentari
Basically, yeah. I agree with the current map-layout, would not mind squishing some new stuff in, but I don't believe any major changes are really in order given what I understand this new game to be, unless one of the mappers is wants to work some of the stuff in on a smaller scale (subdistricts, businesses, roads, etc) that could in a few hundred years grow to be what they are referenced to be in T2014. . .but . . .honestly, I don't see it being that hugely necessary, either. Unless this new game turns out to be more long-lived than its showing the potential for. . .I'd really rather see fan-mission locations added 'formally' instead.
Well said, Elentari...At least the fan missions would be in spirit, truer to the land.
Cori on 19/3/2014 at 03:30
There was a version of str8g8's old district map that included a few FM districts--which I can't remember the names of at the moment. The general census wound up being that we work with what we have from the canon material, and let FM creators find their own spots in and around the city.
I'm sure once everyone has come to an agreement about the placement of the general city, we'll be able to concentrate on non-canonical areas. After all, the city is big, and if we only focus on areas visited in the games then we'll still have big blank spaces in the map.
At the same time we probably shouldn't place any fan missions without first talking to the creators of those missions, which might be difficult to do.
Quote Posted by Elentari
You're probably the most up-to-date on this conversation than anyone right now, having recently read through it. :)
Haha, yeah, I had at least 30 tabs open simultaneously a few days ago while I was combing through this thread for pictures.
Elentari on 19/3/2014 at 03:40
Thanks, Vae. :) And yeah, I do believe that most fan-missions - at least ones that'd be added would be a lot truer to the spirit of the city we know. (Or its outskirts)
Cori, I know that part of the project was left. And it makes sense, but I still would like to see at least some of the better known ones added.
But yeah, I think talking to some of the FM authors would be pretty tough now. I think some of them have disappeared entirely over the years and more or less 'abandoned' their FMs. More's the pity, but not surprising. For the most part I would agree that FMs authors should just 'pick a spot'. . .since most of them just focus on a house/small bit of land, or a relatively small neighbourhood, etc, that wouldn't even make a map. But that doesn't mean I don't like the idea of maybe a secondary version of the final having some of the locations of the bigger FMs being noted. Wishful thinking perhaps, but thats ok. Right now I Just wish it could be 'finished' and wish there was something more I could do besides wait on the sidelines and jump up and down wishing someone would hurry up and make something nice to look at. (And yes, I have tried my hand at cartography a few times. All in all, I am pretty lousy at it. lol I still dabble sometimes, but I really don't seem to have a knack for it. Building/architecture, either, for that part, or so the Sims has convinced me!)
Baggins on 19/3/2014 at 13:32
Did anyone discuss the nautical implications of the name wayside? Ways (or slipways) in ship-building are the ramps in which a newly constructed or repaired vessel is lowered into the water. The implication of wayside being that it probably is a ship building district and not just a warehouse district for trade.
Cori on 19/3/2014 at 15:12
Quote Posted by Baggins
Did anyone discuss the nautical implications of the name wayside? Ways (or slipways) in ship-building are the ramps in which a newly constructed or repaired vessel is lowered into the water. The implication of wayside being that it probably is a ship building district and not just a warehouse district for trade.
I don't think that was discussed, at least not that much, but since Wayside currently takes up the entire west coastline I don't think we need to change its placement. There's plenty of room along there for shipyards.
