DiMarzio on 9/12/2015 at 00:27
Hi!
I've had this recurring thought that possibly some day in the future I could make my own FM. A week ago I had a really good idea for a plot and I can't think of a better format for it than a Thief FM, so lately the thought has become more serious. I think I am a good story thinker (yes, I don't want to use the word teller, since I don't like writing), I have experience of modding, game developing and design (I'm majoring in game applications) and I simply love Thief, so I think I'm good to go :) . Any major level design experience, however, I lack, so I think this could be a great way to get that for my studies and upcoming profession (hopefully ;) ).
But I have a question: Which engine do you think would be the best for me? As a player, I like the Dark Mod the most, but T1/G/2 seem to have better FMs. What I want is an editor and engine that is the least in my way. The editor that really has the best possibilities to let me express myself as an artist. That includes ease of use, bug freeness, beginner-friendliness and so on. I want to spend the most time making the mission, not drowning in tutorials or jumping through hoops the editor decides to put on my way. I don't care about having the state of the art technology or graphics, I'll settle with whatever is the general level for the engine.
Thief 3 is obviously out of the window, I just hate the engine and seems like there's not much players for it any way.
EDIT: Or is it too late? :(
Random_Taffer on 9/12/2015 at 00:50
Quote Posted by DiMarzio
That includes ease of use, bug freeness, beginner-friendliness and so on.
I guess that means Dromed is out!
Renault on 9/12/2015 at 01:06
It may sound like a cop out, but your best option is to try them both out. Both are relatively easy to set up, free, and (at least somewhat) user friendly in that you should be able to create a few simple things without reading a book or manual.
As far as editors go though, Dark Radiant is probably a bit more streamlined, mainly because it's a lot newer - 2008 (and constantly being updated) vs. 1998 for Dromed. And also, not knowing what you have in store for your FM, it's a difficult question to answer. Are you planning on using a lot of custom material, doing in-depth scripting, making large inside/outside areas, etc. That all factors in.
And I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, but it's a simple fact that a lot more people will play your mission if you make it with Dromed, given the fan base that Thief has.
Cardia on 9/12/2015 at 13:33
If you want to address a wider audience i would recommend Dromed.
If you want to build big maps use Dromed new dark , and since it has been updated to new dark its practically free from bugs and crashes. The avatar movements and combat is light, flexible, faster and very fluid.
Dark Mod Radiant allows you to have better graphics and better lightning, but the combat system is really crappy , stealth and blackjacking leaves much to desire, and maps size capacity is very limited.
Thirith on 9/12/2015 at 14:03
Quote Posted by Cardia
Dark Mod Radiant ... stealth and blackjacking leaves much to desire, and maps size capacity is very limited.
I haven't played too much of the Dark Mod, but this is the first I hear about stealth and blackjacking issues; my (very brief) experiences made me think that in terms of stealth and blackjacking the game was very close to
Thief, and the few maps I checked out seemed about the same size as those of the first two
Thief games. Is this impression wrong?
Cardia on 9/12/2015 at 14:38
Quote Posted by Thirith
I haven't played too much of the Dark Mod, but this is the first I hear about stealth and blackjacking issues; my (very brief) experiences made me think that in terms of stealth and blackjacking the game was very close to
Thief, and the few maps I checked out seemed about the same size as those of the first two
Thief games. Is this impression wrong?
Yep, that impression is wrong, play more missions for both engines, and you´ll start to see the differences.
Thirith on 9/12/2015 at 15:00
Care to elaborate? No disrespect, but with you just saying that stealth and blackjacking in Dark Mod leaving much to be desired, that doesn't exactly make me want to go and spend much time checking out just how they aren't up to scratch, at least not without more information.
Random_Taffer on 9/12/2015 at 15:08
I never really had a problem with the stealth or blackjacking in The Dark Mod. It's a lot more challenging since you can't strike an unwary AI in the nutsack to knock him out.
My problem with TDM was the low quality sound design.
Melan on 9/12/2015 at 17:06
Quote Posted by DiMarzio
But I have a question: Which engine do you think would be the best for me? As a player, I like the Dark Mod the most, but T1/G/2 seem to have better FMs. What I want is an editor and engine that is the least in my way. The editor that really has the best possibilities to let me express myself as an artist. That includes ease of use, bug freeness, beginner-friendliness and so on.
I have experience with both Dromed (TG
and T2) and DarkRadiant. For its learning curve and ease of use, I find DarkRadiant to be the more approachable option. It makes the construction and manipulation of level geometry very easy. Grouping pieces of terrain into "func_statics" and saving them as "prefabs" lets you create your own objects or reused assets without a modelling app. The main stumbling block is that wide open areas with lots of detail have a performance cost, so you will have to plan things so you don't have too many of them. But comparatively, you can get further in the same time with DR.
From my perspective, Dromed's main advantages lie is the variety of monster AI, the superiority of Thief's ambient sounds, and the larger asset base accumulated over the years. With NewDark's relaxation of previously ironclad limits, it is no longer as finicky as it once was, which is a plus.
Level size is not an issue, although building a large, detail-filled mission is going to be time-consuming no matter which editor you go with.
Tannar on 9/12/2015 at 19:50
I'll add just one other thing to consider. Since it's stealth you're after, you might ask yourself exactly what stealth elements matter most to you. Some may not, but I think most will agree that the Dark Engine handles light and darkness unlike any other engine. There is something almost tangible about the darkness in Thief that I haven't experienced with any other game. Admittedly, my experience with DarkRadiant is very limited.
