Shadowcat on 9/8/2010 at 09:53
(
http://www.minerwars.com/)
This looks intriguing, at least.
I always rather like the 'assisted realism' approach to space flight, and this dev diary indicates that they have very much embraced that: (
http://www.minerwars.com/News.aspx#Devdiaryno4)
It will include both single- and multi-player, and there's a video on the home page, showing some action from an alpha version.
Hard to tell at this stage what the end result will be like, but I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Yakoob on 9/8/2010 at 10:37
Whoa, these guys need to watch some movie trailers, cause the little video on their front page is shit. Its dull as hell, half of it doesnt make sense ("run silent' followed by a ship flying with a loud engine noise, the fuck?) and it only proves their own developers cant aim for shit (or havent implemented explosions yet).
Shadowcat on 9/8/2010 at 12:02
Yeah yeah yeah. It's not a trailer. They're just showing some (early) work-in-progress. And if you read that dev log, it explains the running silent part.
It gives a rough idea of some of the things they're doing, which is good enough for now.
Yakoob on 10/8/2010 at 01:48
Yea, but if they ever hope to build a fanbase, they need to market themselves well. I shouldnt have to read pages upon pages of a devblog to understand what is going in a video that is on the very front page of their website.
catbarf on 10/8/2010 at 04:15
Quote:
First of all we wanted our weapons to be realistic and more or less up-to-date. We did not want to have any fancy lasers because they have been already done over and over.
Quote:
Of course we can get into the ever-present discussion whether there are any sounds in space at all.
Yes, it's nitpicking, but lolwut @ the quoted text. They want realistic weapons, but not the most likely space weapon of all? And they're under the impression that there's discussion as to whether there's sound in space?
The Newtonian movement system sounds cool, but I bet there are going to be limitations on the assist-off movement mode because in proper Newtonian movement there is no such thing as a top speed.
The trailer, despite being rather boring, shows off the gameplay fairly well, and I think it looks very similar to Descent. But Descent is hardly 'semi-realistic', and that trailer portrayed a game that seemed very fast-paced and arcade-y. Not a bad thing in of itself, but it doesn't seem like even partial realism.
Oh, and the 'silent running' mode they describe is exactly like the one in Shattered Horizon. No electronics, no assisted movement, no sounds- except your own breathing, with the benefit being radar invisibility. I won't call it plagiarism, but it's still somewhat suspicious.
Shadowcat on 10/8/2010 at 10:48
Yakoob: I don't think you comprehend. They're not "marketing" this yet, and there's little point in expending limited resources making a slick trailer if you're just going to have to re-do it down the track. They're just letting people see some progress. If reading the dev diary is too much effort, then you are clearly not
(at this point in time) in the target audience for their web site.
Quote Posted by catbarf
Yes, it's nitpicking, but lolwut @ the quoted text. They want realistic weapons, but not the most likely space weapon of all?
I've certainly read articles suggesting that kinetic weaponry is a far more likely reality than high-powered lasers are, so I'd guess that the devs have been reading similar things.
Quote:
And they're under the impression that there's discussion as to whether there's sound in space?
One suspects they actually meant discussion as to whether or not there should be sound in a space sim.
Quote:
Oh, and the 'silent running' mode they describe is exactly like the one in Shattered Horizon. No electronics, no assisted movement, no sounds- except your own breathing, with the benefit being radar invisibility. I won't call it plagiarism, but it's still somewhat suspicious.
Yeah, that's interesting timing at the least. Hopefully the Shattered Horizons designers are flattered :)
catbarf on 10/8/2010 at 12:38
Quote Posted by Shadowcat
I've certainly read articles suggesting that kinetic weaponry is a far more likely reality than high-powered lasers are, so I'd guess that the devs have been reading similar things.
Interesting, where'd you read that? Space is very big, and very cold, and that means your several-thousand-Kelvin powerplant can be detected from a very great distance. At the kinds of ranges we're dealing with, it's a difference between a laser having a fraction of a second of travel time and a projectile (inherently far less accurate) having a travel time measured in minutes, during which any real movement will dodge the projectile.
I suppose projectiles might be more plausible given the apparent short range of the fights in Miner Wars, but if you have the technology to colonize space you have the technology to build cheap and efficient laser weapons. Not to mention any ship built to go in space is likely covered in Whipple shields to protect against micrometeorites, and high-speed projectiles do diddly-squat against them.
I know I'm talking realism in a conversation about a game that looks like Descent, but at least it's fun to speculate.
Pyrian on 10/8/2010 at 20:24
Space does not conduct audible* sound, but if you're actually
near an explosion you'll still hear the expanding gas wave (nevermind any shrapnel) strike your hull. It'll be more of a "crack" and less of a "boom", though.
*: The tenuous gas and dust clouds of interstellar space carry density waves that are essentially sound.
Quote Posted by catbarf
...but if you have the technology to colonize space you have the technology to build cheap and efficient laser weapons.
Well, no. There will never be efficient laser weapons (they're already cheap): the technology maxes out at a
theoretical limit that is well under 50%, meaning
any laser weapon is going to heat itself more than it heats its target.
It's not hard to imagine a future where the laser never really fulfills its promise as a weapon system. Even if it does, it's likely to be mounted in a drone fighter or missile and treated as an expendable proximity warhead (incinerating your own lasing chamber is much less of a problem if you only intend to fire once!).
catbarf on 10/8/2010 at 20:54
Yes it is. It's really freakin' cold, so even your room-temperature habitation module stands out like a beacon against the background space. It just doesn't conduct heat since there's nothing there.
Quote Posted by Pyrian
It's not hard to imagine a future where the laser never really fulfills its promise as a weapon system. Even if it does, it's likely to be mounted in a drone fighter or missile and treated as an expendable proximity warhead (incinerating your own lasing chamber is much less of a problem if you only intend to fire once!).
Heat's not an issue since any reasonably powerful drive system will kick out a lot more than any laser, so your ship is going to be covered with radiators in the first place. The thing is, the choices really come down to missiles or lasers. It doesn't matter how inefficient a laser is, it's preferable to a gun that has a flight time of several minutes during which it is easily dodged.
Standard, current off-the-shelf sensors can detect the Space Shuttle's navigation thrusters from the Moon. It's main engines could be seen all the way from Jupiter. A NERVA would be visible from Alpha Centauri. When your enemy can see you at those kinds of ranges and your acceleration is limited to a gee or two, closing to within a few dozen miles to fire a conventional gun isn't feasible. Not to mention, if you have the room for ammunition for a gun, you have room for expendable coolant for the laser, so the heat is marginalized.
Now, the idea of a drone using an expendable laser has been researched. Essentially, you'd use a nuclear detonation to power a laser in the brief few milliseconds before it's vaporized. The technology shows some promise.
