Minimalist Project 1.4.1 Revised: May 20th, 2005.

New Horizon on 13/1/2008 at 05:15

Quote Posted by michaelg

I'm picking the same way I did prior to your mod. I think the issue is I don't have the visual clue anymore so getting confused. I actually just finished a mission and back at my apartment, so I'll do some practicing there until I get it.

The visual clues are still there, but you have to get used to how the hands represent it. :)

EvaUnit02 on 13/1/2008 at 05:22

New Horizon, any chance that you'll be fixing the 3rd person mode in Minimalist? Cheers.

New Horizon on 13/1/2008 at 06:03

Quote Posted by EvaUnit02

New Horizon, any chance that you'll be fixing the 3rd person mode in Minimalist? Cheers.

Sorry, no. Minimalist was meant to and always will be, an attempt to make TDS a more traditional first person Thief experience. That's why it's call The Minimalist Project!

EvaUnit02 on 14/1/2008 at 04:23

Could you please write an installer that lets us pick and choose our desired features? Cheers.

Kurgan on 14/1/2008 at 05:55

He already said, long ago, that he wasn't going to do that.

So, the real question is, is there anyone else around, who has the know-how, time, and desire to pick up the torch? Not exactly a "fringe" request, there. A pick-n-choose installer, I think, has been the most asked for feature since the beginning. That'd definitely have a lot of support. :)

New Horizon on 14/1/2008 at 06:23

Quote Posted by EvaUnit02

Could you please write an installer that lets us pick and choose our desired features? Cheers.

As I've stated MANY times, I am NOT a programmer. I like to tweak things, that's as far as it goes. Also, a pick and choose installer misses the point of what The Minimalist Project stands for completely.

I released it to give fans of the classic games an experience that was closer to the original games...so no, I will never do that. I am thinking of releasing a slightly stripped down version, one that doesn't have play-styles...but that's about it.

Quote Posted by Kurgan

So, the real question is, is there anyone else around, who has the know-how, time, and desire to pick up the torch? Not exactly a "fringe" request, there. A pick-n-choose installer, I think, has been the most asked for feature since the beginning. That'd definitely have a lot of support. :)

I would prefer it didn't happen, but aside from that...I don't think folks really understand what this entails...especially if you expected it to work on anything but a vanilla install. To pull this off would require more than a simple click and choose installer, it would require the programmer write a completely separate application that could read a vanilla T3Gamesys file, back it up and modify it. That would partially require deciphering how the T3gamesys is written.

I didn't do anything like that. I did all of my work with T3ED and exported my custom gamesys with the editor. With all the potential combinations, it would be a huge mess of fixes and tweaks. It could be done...but to what end?

It's not a simple task, and with many more important Thief related projects happening, I doubt we'll see anyone try to tackle it anytime soon. Personally, if there was a programmer available, I would rather see them offer to help us out on The Dark Mod, so we can have more hands working on the AI.

Kurgan on 14/1/2008 at 08:45

Quote Posted by New Horizon

I released it to give fans of the classic games an experience that was closer to the original games...so no, I will never do that. I am thinking of releasing a slightly stripped down version, one that doesn't have play-styles...but that's about it.

That would be kinda cool. Something that doesn't alter the game, per se, just makes it look (and behave?) like T2. I got completely lost and confused by some of the variations in TMP along the way, so never could figure out which to get and use. Been ages now, so I can't remember specifics, but I do remember that some sounded great, others contrary to how I did things, and then some stuff I didn't know what it was referring to. So yeah, I think a stripped-down version wouild be a cool idea. Maybe people could play it once with that, then later, if replay is important, they could play around with the full version of TMP to see what aspects they liked. :)

Quote:

Personally, if there was a programmer available, I would rather see them offer to help us out on The Dark Mod, so we can have more hands working on the AI.

Heh, I'd fight ya for him. :) Although I still support TDM, I lost all personal enthusiasm for it when it was revealed there would be no true multiplayer (cooperative, I mean, not boring old deathmatch) support. The one thing T2 (with fan missions) was missing was the ability to get in there and explore a mission with a friend at your side (Thievery tried to do it, but nobody really wrote any missions for it, just combat maps, since it wasn't really designed for the traditional, single-player missions). Thieves of the Shadow Age has a focus on true, cooperative multiplayer, and that's what's got me excited. :)

New Horizon on 14/1/2008 at 13:52

Quote Posted by Kurgan

Well, as we've explained to a few different people. The Mod would never be finished if we tried to maintain support for both the single and multi-player aspects of the Doom 3 engine. We're doing well to have made the progress we have focusing on single player. The amount of bugs and balancing that multi-player would heap on top of us would kill any chances the mod ever had of getting finished. Think about how different multip-player and single player truly is...it would be a completely different game.

That being said, doom 3 supports multiplayer by default...so the support is absolutely possible. We've also stated that when the mod is finished, another group will be able to take our finished work and start a separate 'multi-player' version of Dark Mod...since we'll release the source code as well. The thing to keep in mind though, is that it actually needs to make it to completion before this happens...and that's why help is so important. Once the core mod is finished, the community will have access to the source code...so the more solid we make the core play mechanics...the better your chances of a 'real' Thief-style multi-player. Unless Nightblade fills that gap.

Myagi on 14/1/2008 at 14:39

Quote Posted by New Horizon

Basically, someone would need to write a shader that could force the texture on the item to jump to fullbright. I doubt the other systems could be decoupled, so there would be side effects. Still, it would look a hell of a lot better.

I did make an alternative membrane shader which the t3_patcher applied. Since it was quite a while ago I don't remember exactly, but the problem is one of or a combination of

- multipass lighting, so an object will be lit before membrane shader is applied thus no way for that shader to make an object fullbright
- the membrane shader is in an additive pass, so it can only add a const color val which results in washed out colors

and since other objects also use the shader, as you mentioned, like the patients and also the glowing mushrooms or whatever it was, there has to be some balance in the replacement effects, so those other things look somewhat acceptable.

Personally I settled with my replacement and a very low color bias, so frobbed objects were barely lit up (subtle and non-intrusive but worked since I played in a dark room at night). I actually preferred how the patients looked with my replacement :) I did once, out of curiosity, revert to the original shader to see how they looked and though it was horrible.

inselaffe on 14/1/2008 at 15:04

Could you possibly release your shader somewhere for when i eventually get round to playing thief 3? :) I'm sure many others would appreciate it too :)