Minimalist Project 1.4.1 Revised: May 20th, 2005.

Springheel on 1/4/2005 at 04:32

Wow, I forgot which forum I was on for a minute...are you going to argue for eliminating quicksaves next, NH? ;)

New Horizon on 1/4/2005 at 04:36

Quote Posted by Nupraptor

But by providing options, you could still reach the "right" audience while helping even more people enjoy the game. It just seems a bit elitist, is all.

Yeah, I can definately see it being viewed as elitist. :) In truth it's not, so it doesn't really bother me. I have tried my best to further balance T3 and revive the subtlety of the previous titles. This needed to be tight and concise. The more options you introduce, the less focussed the vision becomes. I tried my best to create a definitive retro style mod. I like to look at this type of work as painting on a canvas, many people will view the painting and no doubt critique on its merits but we don't give everyone a brush to make their own adjustments or additions. :)

Of course, the difference is that everyone is free to dig into the files and do so but as far as the project goes...this is what I desire it to be. :)

Quote:

I'm mostly just playing the Devil's Advocate here, though. I enjoy the Minimalist Project for what it is. I tweaked the AI a little further, but I'm otherwise happy with it.

I'm still not 100% happy with the AI in this version either. Still have to find a proper balance.

Quote:

Minimalist is so nice that I can't go back to playing TDS without it, and it seems a shame that some people may not use it because of one or two things that could have been optional.

There will be people who won't use it even if everything is optional, so I won't worry about it too much. What has made finishing the work so worthwhile are the PM's from people who have bought the game recently just because of this project. While I had hoped that it might sway some people to actually try the game...I never truly believed that it would make such a difference.

New Horizon on 1/4/2005 at 04:36

Quote Posted by Springheel

Wow, I forgot which forum I was on for a minute...are you going to argue for eliminating quicksaves next, NH? ;)

:laff:

Now now...I'm not that type.

Nupraptor on 1/4/2005 at 04:44

Thanks for the responses. :) It's nice to have a civil discourse every now and then.

Darth Slaughter on 1/4/2005 at 04:57

Ok... I'm new in this community, but it's a long time since I started lurking around here.

but I loved minimalist so much (at least it's idea of being a kind of an "Thief 1/2 emulator" for T:DS) that I had to post it here in order to confirm what nupraptor just said.

Well, i love thief 1 (gold) and thief 2. My favorite games of all time, and finally I got T3. I only started the tutorial with the new textures John p. made, and I liked it.

but I'm in doubt now: should I install Minimalist NOW or play the game without it first, then try minimalist later?

I installed the 1.3 version and tried a little. I got a little frustrated with the AI being so much sensitive now. I made garret move and they just immediately see him, or notice a strange noise. That was not the way it was in expert level in thief 1/2. So, i feel kind of excluded... I'm feeling as not being part of the "right" audience.

Anyway, I dind't try minimalist for a long period..

But anyway... the ideia is finish the game as it is, without M 1.4, than try with minimalist installed later, so I can try the new challenge.

limited weapons does not bother me... it's strategy. having limitless makes things really easier. so this change is acceptable.

But what makes thief great for me is not only the gameplay, sneaking around... (with this new AI, i didn't fell I was a sneaker in this game). It's the story, how the story of the game unfolds (I love the originals' plots) and I don't have a clue on what happens in T: DS. with this new AI, I will progress so slowly in this game, that I'll won't stick to the story... I'll stick in the quck save quickload... I will lose immersion.

Other thing that I think it's not a real problem: the movement keys settings. I used to play thief 1/2 with normal walking speed as default, pressing shift to run, or to toggle run (in thief 2), since garret spends most of his time walking and sneaking than running.

In thief 3, it disapoints me that he runs as default. pressing shift makes him walk. there's a hint on the tweaking guide thread that inverts the sittuation, which i did. just alter some numbers in key configurations.

Since minimalist 1.4 changes movemnt keys, and uses running speed as default, I'd like to know if I change the speeds manually as the tweaks thread instructs, would I have some incompatibility, like walking making more noise than running?

anyway, I'm not on a rush to have this answers, since now I'm playng Deus Ex invisible war... minimalist is great, successful, but seems to me that it is mostly for veterans in T: DS, who already played through all the game, but forgot people who only played the 1st ones, at least in gameplay area. Graphicaly, the minimalist HUDs are a master piece. And quite atractive.

Well... maybe I should stop whinning and try to defeat those stupid enhanced AIs... I'm a human being, I can beat them... hahahaha...

but I still want to know if i can exchange running for walking without side effects.

thank you, sorry the picking on your job, which is wonderful...

I hope I start to show up here more... frequently!! :D!

PS: and the game is called deadly shadows... I think you should add minimalist project, but not substitute the original title for another that has nothing to do with the story... well, I promise I shut up from now... :thumb:

PS2: I don't know programing, nor how to make tweaks by my self, unfortunately. And then, I have to rely on other's works. What I criticize is not a work of art that i can't do by myself. I criticize a work that is released to a public audience who has opinions... so, i am free to criticize even if I can't do better... anyway... just adding this because while I wrote this post, new answers just appeared...

Aja on 1/4/2005 at 07:14

If I were you, I'd at least enable 3rd person so you can experience that - you might even enjoy it (I do). Otherwise, Minimalist Project is pretty much beneficial all around. The objectives that it alters were stupid in the first place (stuff like "find 3 special loot items"), so I certainly wouldn't worry about that (plus you can just play it on Cutpurse). If I were you, I'd re-enable 3rd person and play the game on the Thief setting.

(to renable it I replaced T3cameras.ini with the original - I don't know if anything else was altered by this, but it seems to work fine)

jolynsbass on 1/4/2005 at 18:52

Quote Posted by Darth Slaughter

I installed the 1.3 version and tried a little. I got a little frustrated with the AI being so much sensitive now. . . .

Anyway, I dind't try minimalist for a long period.. . . .

Umm... wasn't Minimalist 1.3 released only a couple of weeks ago? I guess that could seem like a long time to some people, but honestly!

Also, it seems like there are lots of people who want to be able to walk/run without having to hold down a dumb modifier key. Therefore I am going to present a new thread with the simple instructions for all to see. Soon as it's up, I'll post a link in here.

New Horizon on 1/4/2005 at 19:03

Quote Posted by jolynsbass

Also, it seems like there are lots of people who want to be able to walk/run without having to hold down a dumb modifier key. Therefore I am going to present a new thread with the simple instructions for all to see. Soon as it's up, I'll post a link in here.

Yes, it was something I meant to impliment but with the other things going on, never got around to doing. I'll slip it into a revision soon.

jolynsbass on 1/4/2005 at 19:16

Okay, anyone who cares - here's the link to my new thread about walking/running. It's embarassingly simple, but more embarassing that they didn't include such a basic option as walking in the controls... good old XBOX I guess :nono: ...

anyway, here it is: (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1238008#post1238008) http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1238008#post1238008

I hope it helps someone.

By the way, NH, I am really looking forward to trying 1.4. Thanks for all your hard work!

Darth Slaughter on 1/4/2005 at 21:27

thanks for the thread... about the 1.3 version being release just some weeks ago, well... I've just downloaded version 1.4. didn't try yet. but the AI being too sensitive probably is still too sensitive for a newbie like me in T3...

But anyway... i can get used to it...

and i think NH can go on improving features in many versions of minimalist...

At least, I have to give them a try...