Mission by Type thread is being updated.... Your feedback would be appreciated - by fortuni
Samantha1 on 9/7/2021 at 07:24
Quote Posted by downwinder
is it possible to have a cannon / non cannon split on all fan missions,and yes i know nothing is truly cannon besides om games,but some of the fan missions have deep stories that can be cannon compared to some missions like doom/hexen/anything 100% non thief should be a non cannon so people know if its going to be a mission to enjoy over time or a quick killfest/etc
i hope that made sense as i feel i drifted toward the end
other wise amazing job everyone involved
Fortuni is right, theres no way we could do sth. like that.
fortuni on 9/7/2021 at 08:00
Could I ask for some feedback on Galaer's (
https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151318&p=2474080&viewfull=1#post2474080) other suggestions
1].
Demos being placed in the small mission section. Not a bad idea but I think I would prefer to have a separate section for demos, some of them are odd balls to say the least.
2.
City + Mansion section. Again a reasonable suggestion, reduces number of missions in City section and in the Mansion section, but I did find I rarely placed any FM in that section.
3.
Mazes, Sewers, Water. Are most people OK with us removing these sections or do you have other opinions? I can see the argument in keeping the sewer section but honestly there are not many missions in which sewers are seriously important, extensive sometimes yes, but rarely game critical.
4.
5 Minute Wonder I don't see much difference between 5 minute and 15.
Bosh on 9/7/2021 at 08:27
Demos - I'd personally rather know if an FM is a demo, as I don't want to play these.
City + Mansion - I dunno. I think having "City", "Mansion" and "Mansion - small/houses", as proposed, works fine for me.
Underground - for me, this includes sewers, waterways and anything else underground. So many missions have a bit of sewer anyway, but a significant sewer would fit into here.
Small - I like this. I don't often play short/5-15 minute wonder missions really, prefer something longer. So I like to know if something is only a short play.
Mazes (verb and noun versions) are mentioned in the "Brief Summary of Missions" thread, so if a maze or more confusing layout isn't someone's thing, checking out the brief description may help weed this one out. So, no I don't think a separate section is needed.
fortuni on 9/7/2021 at 08:49
Sound like we're singing from the same hymn sheet. I've got a list of missions with sewers, I'll dig it out and post it, that may help people appreciate why we should/shouldn't have such a section, but if we do I'm not fully persuaded they should be bundled in with underground, just don't seem to fit too comfortably with that section in my mind.
With regard to 5 minutes wonders Galaer was proposing we have Short Mission (can finish in 15-20 mins) and 5 minute wonders. I don't see the point in that
Galaer on 9/7/2021 at 08:50
Quote Posted by fortuni
4.
5 Minute Wonder I don't see much difference between 5 minute and 15.
You are incorrect with this one. Small missions usually are longer than 15 min. Usually you can beat them under 1 hour (30-45 min usually). And there is actually big difference between 45 min long mission and 5 min long mission. For example: Sabotage in Eastport is small, but not short mission. It took me around 1 hour to beat it the first time. Unless you are gonna change current list. Also current 5 Minute Wonder list isn't small, so if added to Small section, it will make large list and don't you want to avoid that?
Bosh on 9/7/2021 at 09:11
I think I agree with Galaer's point. Perhaps it is down to the use of "small" - everyone's definition of how small "small" is may differ?
However, the term "5-minute wonder" says what it is on the tin! (I do feel anything that takes less than, say, 15 mins to complete, would fall under this term.) So, I do like a category that points out an FM is short - it is agreeing the terminology/definition I guess!
fortuni on 9/7/2021 at 09:13
If we introduce a Demo section and include all the Drome Beauty Contest missions in that section that would reduce the number of 5 mins mission to about half of what the current list shows.
And yes that 15-20 minute rule is rather semantic, it's impossible to have a definitive rule for what makes a mission a small mission, so lets think 'Can you finish in under 30 minutes', and no I would not include Sabotage in Eastport in the small section, general feelings once you have played the mission is the best guide to what should fit into that category, was it something that was really easy, bite sized mission that you could finish in your coffee break, but there will of course be exceptions, there always are.
Maybe we should have Demo + 5 Minutes Wonders as well as Small Missions, that would accommodate your concerns, and keep the a section for missions that are described and renowned as demos.
fortuni on 9/7/2021 at 09:28
Here's my list of sewer missions, I've striked out those those that I would rather not include in any sewer section because they are just not significant enough, leaving approx 25 sewer missions, and I'm guessing you could remove some of those as well as a lot of them are not that significant, extensive maybe but not game critical.
So are 25 missions a big enough group of missions to justify their own section? Or would those left on the list be justified in the underground section?
Sewer Missions
T1/TG
Careless Hand, The..................................yes
Chalice of Souls.......................................Yes, significant and large
Dirty Money.............................................Possible. Not really important but memorable
Short Sewer.............................................Yes. escape the sewers mission
Station to Station.....................................Yes. escape the sewers mission
Trial by Night...........................................No. extensive but only really a way to get across town.
Vigil, The................................................No. not huge or important
T2 Missions
About Rats, Spiders and an Escape..............No. Too small
Among Two Storms....................................yes, important
Ashen Age Part 1.......................................No. extensive but only really a way to get across town.
Ashcourt...................................................No, it's supposedly set in the sewers but really there are no one as we know of them
Benny's Dead............................................Hugely memorable so yes
Better Tomorrow, A....................................Yes, hugely memorable
Book of Prophecy, The 2 :Hidden City............No, only small at start
Broken Gears.............................................Yes
Cathedral of St. Vincent...............................not important
Chain of Events..........................................no
Cistern, The...............................................yes, significant at start of mission
Drymian Codex,The.....................................yes, significant at start of mission
Durant.......................................................no
Evil Thievery...............................................Yes
Evirath's Misery............................................No
Good Samaritan, The....................................No, not massive or really important
Greenbay....................................................No
Greyquarter Heist, The.................................Yes, small but memorable
Hidden Agenda............................................No, but do lead to large underground complex which some may consider to be part of sewers.
Horns of Canzo pt2: The Dragons Cla.............Yes, significant
Horror in St. Urbain.....................................Yes
In dubio pro Garrett.....................................No, big but only there to get into the mansion.
Into the Odd...............................................Yes.
Konkurrenten..............................................Yes, extensive
L'Arsene......................................................No
Lord Alan's Basement....................................No
Mistrz: Demo...............................................Yes (just)
Moth to a Flame...........................................No
Mountain Maya.............................................No
Night in Rocksbourg, A: Discovery...................Yes
Old Friend, An..............................................No, not really important or extensive
Out for A Revenge.........................................No, not really important or extensive
Overlords Ending............................................Yes
Schizophrenica.............................................No
Shadow of Lord Rothchest, The.......................No
Shadows of Eidolon.......................................Yes
Sir William's Keep.........................................No, not big and only at start of mission.
Sluggs Fan Missions......................................Yes, mission 3 is an escape from the sewers mission
Smuggler's Request, A..................................Possible, reasonable size but not important
Strange Meeting...........................................No, only at start of mission, less than 5% of gameplay
Strife Campaign...........................................Yes, mission 2 set in sewers
Thieves Guild.................................................Yes
TiC Part I: Conspiracies in the Dark.................No, very small part of map
Viktor Gaspar...............................................Yes
What Lies Below...........................................Yes
When Still....................................................Yes
Galaer on 9/7/2021 at 10:23
I'm fine with classification of Demo + 5 Minute Wonders. Also how about Exploration section? Into this section would go mission where you explore without any danger. Some Cardia's missions allow that like Melancholy in Porto or FTM Life (there are usually 3 hostile AI, but they are never any problem in these huge cities). Ricebug and Christine when they submitted big campaigns, they sometimes include city mission where you can observe common people life. For example 1st mission of Raven Creek. Also I'm not talking about small room missions or camvator missions.
Also to your Sewer list you can add Overlord's Ending. Since it's based on Thieves Guild, main attraction are sewers.
fortuni on 9/7/2021 at 10:30
Exploration doesn't grab me, after all aren't all Thief missions about exploring? You might have to find a key or solve a puzzle to get to the next area, and again it's other category that would be a nightmare to decide what should go in and what should stay out.
Quote Posted by Galaer
Also to your Sewer list you can add Overlord's Ending. Since it's based on Thieves Guild, main attraction are sewers.
Added + added Thieves Guild T2 Conversion
That makes 29 missions in sewer section, big enough to justify it's own section and arguably too may to add to underground section that probably is stretching already to be as big as city section or mansion section.
