marbleman on 17/2/2017 at 15:27
These questions have been on my mind recently, and I would like to hear the others' opinions on the matter.
I have read many times that "mansion missions are overdone." I can see why people would say that, especially since "a mansion with a crypt or a temple below it" has been done many times.
However, I have also seen that many people love city missions despite there, probably, being even more of them than mansion ones. Yet I have never read that "city missions are overdone." What makes this even more interesting is that the first two Thief games did not have city missions as such (I would not call "Ambush!" a proper city mission).
So, I would like to hear:
Do you think mansion missions are overdone? If so, why? What such a mission has to feature for it to be original?
How did city missions become so popular and why are they so popular now?
Do you think city missions are overdone? If not, do you think they will be at some point?
I'd like to point out that I'm not bashing on any mission type here :) I love both the mansion and city type missions :)
Cavalorn on 17/2/2017 at 15:37
My favorite missions were always the mansion missions with some "terrible secrets". I cannot get enough of them. Ominous Bequest, Rowena's Curse, The Den, etc are the type of missions I enjoy playing the most.
The popularity of city missions comes from the fact that one of the biggest aspect of Thief gameplay is exploration. What's a better place to explore and feel yourself like a true thief than a city mission, with dozens of accessible buildings and rooftops. It provides the true "thief" experience in my opinion. I believe city missions will always be the most popular around here.
Judith on 17/2/2017 at 15:43
For me the city missions are more or less a no-no. I'm pretty much up-to-date with modern gaming, and it's over-saturated with open-world hub games now. Wandering around cities in GTAs, AssCreeds, and even T3 or T4 feels empty, it's just a filler. I prefer something more meaningful, a separate location, with distinctive style and interesting take on the theme. That's why I don't care about city sections in Dishonored 2, but I love places like Jindosh and Stilton manors. They have style and something interesting to say.
skacky on 17/2/2017 at 15:59
I don't think mansion missions are overdone, but very good mansion missions are arguably pretty rare. I love Conspiracies in the Dark because the layout is really confusing the first time through and feels very realistic and organic, and I love Heist Society because it has an incredibly well done Thief 2 aesthetic and just has an absolutely killer layout that is far less confusing than Conspiracies but is complex enough as to not be dull one second. There are more really good mansion missions out there but these two are the best of the best imo.
To elaborate a bit more, I guess that the mansion mission model is much more static than the city one: a mansion will almost always be more or less the same thing with slight variations here and there, whereas you can really go nuts with city layouts and styles. Narrow streets or big avenues, very tall and twisty buildings or more blocky and imposing architecture, non-linear rooftop exploration or easy pickings on the streets... the mansion mission also usually provides less opportunities for exploration in the broadest sense of the term: the playground is usually smaller, lines of sight are usually shorter and verticality is something that often doesn't come into play at all in these missions (something both Conspires in the Dark and Heist Society do very well, actually). You don't get the same kind of adrenaline rush in a mansion mission where everything is more or less at eye level than in a city mission where you can find yourself on a parapet up high, hopping from rooftop to rooftop with a possibility of falling to your painful death if you are careless. The adrenaline rush in a mansion mission is more about being an intruder and figuring out how to navigate between rooms without getting caught.
I love mansion missions, but city missions are definitely my favorite mostly because of how incredibly fun they are if pulled off successfully.
Unna Oertdottir on 17/2/2017 at 16:25
A city mission is most often a mansion mission, too.
A mission that combines many types of missions is Morbid Curiosity. That's why it's so much fun to play (well, it's funny, anyway). It never gets boring.
Azaran on 17/2/2017 at 18:28
Quote Posted by marbleman
Do you think mansion missions are overdone? If so, why? What such a mission has to feature for it to be original?
How did city missions become so popular and why are they so popular now?
Do you think city missions are overdone? If not, do you think they will be at some point?
I love city missions, and like Cavalorn said, the appeal lies in the exploration. A city mission gives the impression of greater size. And for variety, compare for instance Rocksbourg 2, Burglary in Blackbrook, and Midnight in Murkbell. All city missions, all very different.
Quote Posted by Cavalorn
My favorite missions were always the mansion missions with some "terrible secrets". I cannot get enough of them. Ominous Bequest, Rowena's Curse, The Den, etc are the type of missions I enjoy playing the most.
This.
The bottom line is there is so much potential just within those two categories, that the possibilities are infinite. The chance of overdoing them is small I think, as long as they're not carbon copies of what was done previously. And judging by the calibre of missions that are being released these days, I think we're doing great ;)
Sweet silence on 17/2/2017 at 19:01
As already said very well by others; big city missions often provide more variety and better opportunities for exploration, features which I believe are loved by many Thief players. Even if I do enjoy a good mansion mission with a twist, I personally prefer city missions over other mission types, because locations are more numerous but small enough to not be overwhelming.
In a city the player can explore without having to spend that much time in a single location. When forced to focus on a single building for a long time, it can easily result to a perfectionist player (well, those who are not devoted ghosters, at least) creep around with a magnifying glass, inspecting every inch of every room, desperately hunting secrets and loot, maybe even knocking out everything that moves for sheer frustration caused by getting constantly interrupted by guards or residents. It gives more freedom and less pressure when the player can hop from a roof to a balcony, quickly clean out an apartment and move on to ponder their next direction, maybe search some locations more closely for secrets if given a hint.
So, I wouldn't say that mansion missions are overdone. They're just harder to build so that the gameplay is smooth and not too demanding, and so that the location looks interesting and unique, and rewards exploration.
Melan on 17/2/2017 at 19:10
"Mansion missions are overdone" would have certainly been true in the mid-2000s. At the same time, missions with a strong focus on supernatural elements (sometimes derided as "woo" missions) were also few and far between. Fortunately, we now see a more even balance. The real question is no longer which is "overdone" or "underrepresented", since there are a lot of both types.
If there is something we have been lacking in as of late, it is some nice, classic Hammerite missions; creature missions; and especially missions with the strangeness of The Sword, The Maw of Chaos or even Strange Bedfellows (although there were elements in Godbreaker which were pretty good in this respect).
TannisRoot on 17/2/2017 at 19:11
It's more challenging to surprise in a mansion mission vs a city mission - they're more predictable. Every mansion has a foyer, some master bedrooms on the top floor, a kitchen, some optional rooms like a library, a wine cellar, a grand staircase, etc. What kind of loot and where it's hidden also follows similar patterns. The mansion also has to follow similar theme or else it ends up looking like Constantine's.
Cities on the other hand are less defined and offer the author more freedom and variety. There's less predictability so exploration can be more interesting.
Judith on 17/2/2017 at 19:34
About the apparent advantage of city missions vs other types: the theme doesn't really matter much. For very long time videogames were, and still are, corridors and rooms dressed as different things: temples, jungles, cities, houses, factories etc. Levels need to evoke the theme and function of certain location only to a sufficient degree, but this is secondary. Gameplay is king. You don't have to build realistic locations, noone cares about that in games. Only your level design skills determine whether a location will be compelling to traverse, explore, play through.
