Zygoptera on 5/11/2008 at 02:08
Quote Posted by The_Raven
Xerxes also says something about serving the "metal mother" in engineering.
References to "mother" are not indicative though as, per KL, Polito created the Xerxes AI. Those references, especially with the Many's group consciousness, could have been literally referring to her.
Angel Dust on 5/11/2008 at 02:35
Quote Posted by heywood
In Med/Sci:Xerces announcement: "Intruder detected in cryo recovery B. Intruder, the Many demands to know your intentions. Are you aligned with her? Do you not know of her past? Of her history? She once tried to destroy your species, and now you do her bidding. Intruder detected in cryo recovery B."
For anyone that played SS1, hearing that Xerces quote in the sequel should have been enough to spoil the surprise. But if not, there's more:
Log: POLITO 25.JUN.14
re: Strange AI
To: Delacroix, Dr. Marie
Marie... I'm sorry I've been out of touch, but I've been working on that artifact Bayliss brought back from Tau Ceti 5. I've done a level 3 analysis on it... I think it's some kind of Artificial Intelligence. I've managed to pull an audio tag file out of its memory... I'll let you be the judge... Marie... I think it's speaking English...
In Engineering:Many cutscene: "Do you not trust the feelings of the flesh? Our biology yearns to join with yours. We welcome you to our mass. But you puzzle us. Why do you serve our mother? How can you choose cold metal over the splendor of the flesh? But you fear us. We hear your thoughts, and they rage for your brothers who you believe dead. But they are not. They sing in our symphony of life. We offer another chance to join us. If you choose to lie down with the machine, we will rend you apart, and put you separate from the joys of the mass."
Log: DELACROIX 11.JUL.14
re: A new friend?
I've been contacted by some kind of artificial intelligence that wants to help me reclaim control of the Von Braun from whomever... or whatever is now in charge. I don't know where it came from, but I must confess I'm happy it is here.
In Hydroponics:Log: POLITO 04.JUL.14
re: AI voice fragment
To: Delacroix, Dr. Marie\nMarie, this is urgent... It seems the AI from Tau Ceti has integrated itself into the ship's computer... I picked up this fragment today... Not only that, but after I found the fragment, I returned to my lab to find it ransacked. I must see you... you're the only one I trust now. I have a theory about this AI. I tried to find information about the various rumors regarding the events on Citadel Station. I think I'm on to something... <<MESSAGE INTERRUPTED>>
If there was any doubt left, that log should have settled it.
I remember all those log messages and knew exactly who they were referring to but for some reason I didn't interpret them as Shodan = Polito. Most of them I figured as setting Shodan up as a presence in the game and the Many's talk of 'machine and flesh' I took as referring to my cybernetic upgrades. Of course as soon as I discovered Polito about 23,739 things went click in my brain and I immediately realised what a dolt I had been. :o
Scots Taffer on 5/11/2008 at 03:12
Quote Posted by Aja
It just shifted gears into a higher meta-level at that point. Levine himself admitted that they did it that way as a giant "fuck you" to the player. Sure, it's the easy way out, but it's still hilariously awesome.
Yes, I can imagine Levine masturbating furiously at how awesome he was. Pity it meant sweet fuck all to the actual third act.
Quote Posted by dethtoll
I played SS2 years before I played Bioshock and I still thought the scene with Ryan was brilliant- it certainly stood out against the rest of the story. So I dunno what you guys are on about.
The way in which the "twist" was revealed and the construction of the Ryan scene was splendid but far from having a visceral or emotional impact, I was left thinking how similar it was to SS2 and how utterly meaningless it was.
Aja on 5/11/2008 at 06:57
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
Yes, I can imagine Levine masturbating furiously at how awesome he was. Pity it meant sweet fuck all to the actual third act.
Pity we're talking about moments and not acts. I don't understand how can call it "splendid" but then claim it's devoid of emotional impact. I think a lot of us were sweating bullets by that point. And it's not utterly meaningless at all; it provides a fascinating insight into Rapture's most memorable character, regardless of what happened afterwards. It actually had a great deal more meaning than it's predecessor. I see no forums with forty-page literary analyses on Shodan's surprise.
june gloom on 5/11/2008 at 07:26
That's 'cuz nobody played SS2 besides us.
Fafhrd on 5/11/2008 at 08:24
Quote Posted by Aja
It just shifted gears into a higher meta-level at that point. Levine himself admitted that they did it that way as a giant "fuck you" to the player. Sure, it's the easy way out, but it's still hilariously awesome.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the thing that completely breaks that moment, and makes its pretensions of meta-commentary fail, is that the whole event is a non-interactive cutscene. The player is not complicit in any way with what happens when Ryan comes out of his office, and it completely defuses the impact of the moment, and wastes a lot of well done emotionally charged earlier scenes where the player character is given more than enough reasons to believe that Ryan is a heartless evil bastard, and that killing him is a good idea. The twist would have worked better if the whole 'A Man chooses, a Slave obeys. Would You Kindly' reveal had been done with an audio log that you see Ryan finish recording just as you arrive, and listen to AFTER the deed is done. Of course, the game would still fly wildly off the rails after the Atlas reveal.
It's not comparable to the Polito reveal in SS2 because the only thing that changes after finding Polito is the knowledge of who you're working for. The character hasn't actually changed, and your motivations and goal are still the same: Destroy the Many.
Anyway, Back on Topic:
The final confrontation with Fettel in F.E.A.R. is one of my favourites. (It's similar to the Bioshock twist, but you, the player, get to pull the trigger!) Followed by the nuclear explosion.
Escaping from the prison in the Marine storyline of AvP2, and later, when playing as the Predator, seeing myself escape.
june gloom on 5/11/2008 at 08:58
I love the ending of Extraction Point. Another great moment with Fettel.
Actually I like most of your encounters with Fettel. The game makes him out to be so dangerous, and such an important target, and he keeps popping up all over the place- but he's not really there, he's fucking with you. Makes finally killing him have a lot more impact.
It's a pity they didn't really explain how he was resurrected for XP, but it doesn't make the ending any less awesome.
Nor, for that matter, the nuke going off in Perseus Mandate. Great scene and literally the point the game starts to improve.
gunsmoke on 5/11/2008 at 17:25
I just played the 1st mission of the original Splinter Cell on my Xbox. I had forgotten how panicky and awesome that first mission in the fiery building was.
Also, the Normandy mission in Medal of Honor:Frontline
heywood on 5/11/2008 at 19:07
Quote Posted by Fafhrd
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the thing that completely breaks that moment, and makes its pretensions of meta-commentary fail, is that the whole event is a non-interactive cutscene. The player is not complicit in any way with what happens when Ryan comes out of his office, and it completely defuses the impact of the moment, and wastes a lot of well done emotionally charged earlier scenes where the player character is given more than enough reasons to believe that Ryan is a heartless evil bastard, and that killing him is a good idea. The twist would have worked better if the whole 'A Man chooses, a Slave obeys. Would You Kindly' reveal had been done with an audio log that you see Ryan finish recording just as you arrive, and listen to AFTER the deed is done.
I'd have to play it that way to be sure, but I don't think that would have worked. You don't want the player to feel complicit in killing Ryan, because then it doesn't feel like you're acting against your will.
There's a difference between giving the player the illusion of freedom while requiring them to do certain things to progress (as most games do) and putting the player under mind control. If Bioshock revealed "would you kindly" through an audio log, it would have felt like the former, not the latter. Basically, it would have just felt like a convenient excuse for the narrator-based gameplay instead of a major plot twist.
Oh, and by the way, I thought the most memorable moment of SS2 by far was the beginning of the final level.
Koki on 5/11/2008 at 19:26
Quote Posted by Fafhrd
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the thing that completely breaks that moment, and makes its pretensions of meta-commentary fail, is that the whole event is a non-interactive cutscene.
How would you even go about making it an interactive cutscene? The whole goddamn point is that you're being brain-controlled.
