RavynousHunter on 21/8/2009 at 10:27
Quote Posted by Yakoob
Hmmm, I guess I don't share as much sadness or fear in "our little beloved indies!™" dying. I mean, let's be honest here folks - if their games were good, they wouldn't be going bankrupt.
What fucking world are you living in? Indies don't get as many sales because they don't have brand recognition like EA or 2K have. You also forget that most of the larger publishers are little more than shovelware peddlers, just look at EA.
Also, indie games are quite often the hive of creativity and actual uniqueness in the industry. Of course, that doesn't matter to your average casual gamer because if they can't just arbitrarily smash buttons (or keys) and win, its not worth it and they piss and moan because their minuscule brains can't handle the strain of rational thought for more than a femtosecond.
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Look at the big companies like EA or 2K. Sure, we bitch about them all the time but at the end of the day, they bring us some real high quality that sells for millions. They may not be to the taste of TTLGers, but numbers don't lie - they make good games. Or at least, better games than the indies.
Again, do you live in a damn CAVE?! Sales != Quality of Product. Look at Thief, it wasn't a blockbuster, but its pretty much unanimously agreed that it is one of the best fucking games of all time.
The only thing that really nets EA any decent sales are the consoletards who buy each yearly edition of Madden NFL though the product changes little between each installation. A great many of EA's IPs are naught but shovelware of the worst variety, the yearly installation variety. EA killed off many good companies like Origin simply because they couldn't move product fast enough.
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Honestly, as harsh as it may sound, I'd rather see the small devs fail and teach a lesson, than stay in the game promoting mediocrity. If you keep rewarding shitty designs, you will keep getting shitty designs. If we actually want to keep getting good games, we need to let the economical "survival of the fittest" take its toll every now and then.
We
are rewarding shitty design, but not to whom you're thinking. We're rewarding the likes of EA for just shoveling the same shit with a different number stamped on it, while the indie developers actually go out of their way to make good games, but many times end up getting shit shoveled in their face by dickheads like you who whine when they can't get their shiny new copy of Madden NFL the MINUTE it comes out.
The difference between big publishers like EA and indie developers is that the big-wigs are just in it for the money. The indie devs are in it to make
art, its what they do; they live, eat, and breathe game design. Why? Because they actually have TALENT. A degree is meaningless, any moron can mince in off the street and get a bachelor's in game design these days, but it takes a person with a true love of the art, someone with true, in-born
talent to make something that's actually worth playing.
Thirith on 21/8/2009 at 10:43
While I agree with everything that's being said about indie developers, I still find it difficult to interpret the most extreme anti-big publisher vitriol as anything other than geek snobism. Yes, there's a lot they can be criticised for, but saying that the majority of their games aren't very competently crafted entertainment strikes me as disingenuous.
And anyone who needs to put down players of these games as small-brained dolts: do you only read Faulkner, Pynchon, Pirandello and Flaubert? Do you only watch Fellini, Pasolini, Truffaut? Do you poopooh beer because it's not wine or even single-malt whisky? Etc. etc.
If I had three wishes, one of them would be that people don't have to make A look better by dissing B to irrational extents. That, and free chocolate for everyone.
EvaUnit02 on 7/9/2009 at 07:10
(
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/60344) Indie developer Bottlerocket closes.
Honestly I'd never even heard of their one released game, nor that there was a sequel to Mark of Kri, which I thought was one of those PS2 first party titles that flopped hard (along with the likes of Primal and Ghosthunter. Primal was awesome, TBH.). Mark of Kri was infamous in NZ for like 5 minutes because it unashamedly stole from icons of Maori culture, allegedly.
I had heard about Namco giving them the axe from the Splatterhouse remake though.
Frankly Ray's rant about big publishers is utterly ignorant, especially in regards to EA. Do we really need to go into the tired discussion about EA's reformed CEO saying that they'll take more gambles on new IPs (i.e. Skate, Mirror's Edge, Dead Space) and their promise to not tamper with the corporate structures of their successful developers capable of quality games (i.e. when they acquired Bioware and Pandemic) again?
Kuuso on 7/9/2009 at 14:36
I guess they payed for Mike Patton to do Bionic Commando's voice.
Eldron on 7/9/2009 at 19:49
at Grin I worked with some of the most talented people in the industry, but often making a game fun to play under time pressure can be quite messy.
as for myself, I can only hope the games I worked on _looked_ good.
EvaUnit02 on 18/11/2009 at 11:32
(
http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/news/134160.20091118.Pandemic-rumoured-to-close-today/)
They weren't indie, but it seems that John Riccitiello maybe starting to go back to his old ways (Under his first tenure as EA's CEO they bought out Westwood, Maxis, Origins, Jane's, ran them into the ground and then closed most of them). Pandemic will be closed. Their "core IP team" will be integrated with EA LA, home of C&C and Medal of Honour franchises.
Hopefully this is to do with the Recession rather Riccitiello wanting to have the title of the gaming industry's Satan once again (currently held by Bobby Kotick).
EDIT: Wasn't there word recently that Mythic was closing shop as well? Will have to google that.
EDIT2: No, (
http://www.mmogamer.com/11/09/2009/trouble-at-ea-mythic) they've just had layoffs apparently.
Aerothorn on 18/11/2009 at 12:21
Yeah, saw that. Bummer. Admittedly, this probably had a lot to do with the fact that Mercenaries 2 was expected to sell a bajillion copies and then everyone hated it.
Of course, the only games of theirs I every played were Mercenaries (which was decent) and Destroy All Humans (which...had issues).
Malf on 18/11/2009 at 12:40
Quote Posted by Eldron
at Grin I worked with some of the most talented people in the industry, but often making a game fun to play under time pressure can be quite messy.
as for myself, I can only hope the games I worked on _looked_ good.
Eldron, just to say, Bionic Commando is one of my favourite games this year.
While people complained about radiation, the difficulty of the swing mechanics and it not being an open-world game, I'd like to think I saw where you guys were coming from with the game.
It's a very literal translation of the 2D game into a 3D environment, with restricted, linear levels, and gameplay that requires concentration from the player.
In addition, criticism of the ludicrous story is facile I find; after all, this is a Bionic Commando game, where everything is fantastical in the first place. It's not meant to make sense, it's just meant to be gloriously bombastic and silly.
I only have a couple of criticisms:
In-game advertising was intrusive.
I was disappointed that there weren't any challenge rooms, especially after the tutorials which recalled the look and feel of Re-armed's challenge rooms.
And it's a shame the map wasn't reproduced allowing for easier replay of particularly great levels while retaining rewards. Level select felt like a half-implemented feature.
I'm guessing a lot of this was down to the pressures you mentioned.
N'Al on 18/11/2009 at 12:42
Quote Posted by Aerothorn
Destroy All Humans (which...had issues).
True. The sequel, however, was a significant improvement, getting rid of most of the issues I'm guessing you're talking about. Having said that, it introduced some issues of its own
(most significantly the fact that you're predominantly fighting aliens at the end of the game, I thought it was called Destroy all Humans?), but it still is a genuinely great game, imo. Which is why it's such a shame all their subsequent releases were so lacklustre.
That was the main problem with Pandemic, I guess. Whilst it's bad to see them shut down, their output was simply far too inconsistent for it to be that much of a surprise, really.
EvaUnit02 on 18/11/2009 at 12:45
I'm still looking forward to Saboteur. Hopefully it won't be married to bugs like Mercs 2. (I only played a little of that game, but it was a lot of fun. I can imagine a lot of the repetitive elements getting old fast, like the tank hijacking QTEs.)
