ZylonBane on 10/1/2010 at 22:35
Cripple fight!
Goldmoon Dawn on 10/1/2010 at 23:32
I simply cant go on...
(Oh, you mean Massi and myself. We are friends, why would we fight...)
massimilianogoi on 10/1/2010 at 23:49
LOL
TazmanianDevil on 11/1/2010 at 04:49
As for what sense of accomplishment I get out of this, I have already achieved that accomplishment multiple times before. At this point, I'd almost rather not play this mission since it's definitely my least favorite but at least giving me a non-painful way of achieving what I do like (disabling or knocking out everything in a mission) makes it bearable. I could spend the time waiting for the water arrows to regenerate (but you have to keep coming back because once you get too many it stops) or luring the machines to an elevator to crush them, but then I'd just be bored. If I played the game even though it bores me and I can fix that, that's just stupid.
I would definitely discourage anyone from cheating on the first and maybe second playthrough, but after that, I'm all for someone tweaking the game however they like. No game is perfect for everyone. I don't understand those of you who insist we all must play the game as you want us to play and to do otherwise is somehow wrong.
jtr7 on 11/1/2010 at 05:06
Indeed, you did state you've played the game many times, so I'd hope the comments against cheating were not aimed at you but for the first-timers that might find this thread and not play the game as it was intended even once.
Aside from that, it is "wrong" to modify a game AND say you are playing it, when it's no longer that game, and no longer the game that comes to mind for others when the name is spoken. Modify the mechanics, or modify what you have to solve the puzzles in order to remove the challenge, and it is literally incorrect to say you are playing the game. You are playing a different game, using the elements of the original only. Pick a game, change the rules to suit yourself, and tell people who know the game about it, and you should expect resistance on some level. You have been honest about everything you intend and where you have come from with the game, but there is a legitimate reason for anti-cheating comments.
TazmanianDevil on 11/1/2010 at 05:27
Quote Posted by jtr7
Aside from that, it is "wrong" to modify a game AND say you are playing
it, when it's no longer that game, and no longer the game that comes to mind for others when the name is spoken.
I can't argue against that being technically true but I think that's a too constrictive way of looking at it. In this day and age, almost every game comes with various community made mods and patches but in most cases, it's a little extra frosting on what is otherwise the same game. There are several mission fixes you can download that fix bugs in the game. Would you say someone playing with those fixes is not in fact playing Thief 2 (it's not the same experience someone playing it out of the box gets)? There's an N-Counter mod that adds a stat to the mission Stats page. Would you say playing with that mod also means you are no longer playing Thief 2?
When I play Thief: DS, I spend several hours tweaking the UI because the one out of the box sucks. I remove stuff like the loot glint and arrow trails and I once again use a hex editor except this time to make the game harder and re-enable the "Don't Kill Anyone" restriction. Is any of that cheating? Would you say I am no longer playing Thief 3 then? If not, what am I playing?
Of course, I would argue that if you want to get down to a rational conversation about your playing experience and any pros or cons that you should be open about any deviations from "canon" you might be using and those differences, if the conversation goes that way, can be discussed and explored. I don't see a reason to label them as wrong, cheating or not truly playing the game.
I do agree that at some point, discussing a game can become difficult if there is a wide gap in experience. Oblivion is perhaps the best example. I've played it vanilla and I've played it loaded with so many mods there's more new content than originally shipped with the game. I don't really like vanilla very much, and many people agree, so there are some adventurous folks who've made huge changes to the rules and mechanics of the game and for almost anything you don't like about the game, you can find a mod to change it. Is any of that cheating? I would say no. If anyone asked me if I play Oblivion and like it, I would tell them I play Oblivion with the major mods X, Y and Z because if I didn't, we really could be talking about two very different games.
jtr7 on 11/1/2010 at 05:55
All you have to do is say you are playing a modified version. You are not playing the official Soulforge, you are playing a modified Soulforge. You are not playing Thief 3, you are playing a tweaked version of Thief 3. Without providing the correct information, people will automatically believe you are playing something else, thus, the fallacy. If you forget you have modified the game, it could affect conversations here.
If you play baseball with a shotgun and clay pigeons instead of a bat, ball, and pitcher, don't call it baseball, no matter how fun it is. If I take your last post, rearrange the nouns to amuse myself, and repost it, then say it IS...YOUR post, I would be wrong. If, however, I said I modified your post, then I would correct.
theBlackman on 12/1/2010 at 02:14
I must agree with jtr7. In order for people to assist you, the need the details of your changes, or exactly where you are in the original (if it is the untweaked game) and what action caused your problem.
That is, of course, along with the specs of your sytem.
TazmanianDevil on 12/1/2010 at 02:56
Are you suggesting that whenever I engage in a conversation about Thief 2 I'm supposed to note that I play a modified version, regardless of whether or not it's relevant?
"Do you like Thief 2?"
"Oh yeah, it's great. I love the atmosphere and the sneaking and the voices. I think it's better than Thief 1 and Thief 3, etc, etc... Oh and a disclaimer, I cheat by giving myself lots of water arrows in the last mission."
That seems entirely insignificant and irrelevant to the discussion. Why would I need to mention that? Now if I were to say, "I love Soulforge because it's a robot disabling fest" then it would probably warrant mentioning the fact that I have lots of water arrows but conversations rarely get that specific.
theBlackman on 12/1/2010 at 03:56
That in and of itself seems insignificant. Using some of the various mods for textures and other tweaks could well be significant.
