jtr7 on 2/12/2008 at 00:51

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I know, Beleg, but we've had this discussion too many times for me to ignore. I noted the italics and :p . I don't just see it as a way to make things easier or explain-away, but as a way to explore "What if...?" and enjoy the alien nature of the imagination. It's about exploring something outside the norm. It's escapism. As an artist, it allows me to explore who I am.

;)


Pick and choose, reject or use:

The speed potion and breath potion could be left out, and the health potion could be a medicinal pick-me-up to quell pain and give a surge of energy, but there should be something like a health potion, tonic, elixir. A plumsie could have a stimulating constituent, like caffeine or as in coca leaves, a lot of vitamin K and potassium, as well as a lot of water (really juicy), all to help with blood loss, none of which would ever be mentioned in the movie. We see him take a chance, because he's weak and thirsty, and feel better and better as the minutes go by. Thirst being quenched immediately. Heck, one Keeper could give Garrett some field treatment for his freshly-emptied eye socket, while the others cut him free. Establish a little of everything for the possibility of a sequel, and so the games don't seem too silly if someone watches the movie first.:p

The mines don't have to come into play, but they, like the explosive device, should be present, methinks. They should be seen, but not used. If Garrett is shown to be a master of stealth, and not an assassin, he wouldn't use them anyway. Black powder is present, as well as springs, gears, and piezoelectronics, so you could establish their existence. The Baron is off at war with Blackbrook, so these things could be shown as war technology.

With magic so prevalent across the board, I don't think the technology would be as hard to makes sense of. I don't remember too many complaints about The Golden Compass.:) I wouldn't be surprised if people thought a faithful Thief movie stole its ideas from Golden Compass.

Although I'm reluctant to say it, the sword should probably only come into play before a mission Garrett knows he may have to fight his way out of. It should be more of a sign of the danger he believes he's going into, but not carried at all times. It could be smaller, lighter, and a last resort. If bashing is planned, he could carry a hatchet ( :p ).

Constantine's sword is a must, if you are including all the TDP missions. It is the special loot AND his weapon. Since enemies don't notice it when it's drawn, you can decide if he ever uses it as a weapon. Maybe we could briefly see what makes it special when he leaves the mansion. Garrett can then choose not to use it against what he finds in the Old Quarter.

He wouldn't need a lightgem. I like the little thing, but it cannot replace the mind and the senses. In-game, Garrett has no shadow or silhouette when standing in backlit darkness, so those considerations are left behind. It would have to be used quite differently for it to exist. Like, it could be used by some blind taffer, and it would be magical, growing warmer (not luminous) with increased light, and colder with increased darkness. It would have to draw energy from around the whole person. :sweat:

He would need a compass or a keen sense of direction or a trail of breadcrumbs for visiting places he's never been, which is most of TDP's missions. It's a wonder all the electronics never mess with it. Plenty of excuses for him not to have it out all the time, but a compass is well-established in real life, as well, and should go with the occasional map. Garrett's on a mission, an excursion into the wild unknown, he should have basic tools like a good boy scout. Be prepared! Or have an extraordinary gift to make up for it. And we can't give Garrett too many of those.

The vine arrow probably shouldn't be found growing out of a vine, and if it is, there probably should be more than one in the area. Made with Viki's magic, they are. Too bad no ApeBeasts were archers. It would have to be found with supplies, or misplaced, and Garrett should have a hunch what it is, since he doesn't have text on a user interface to tell him what it is.:laff:

Flashbombs could be smaller, and produce flinders. Or made like fireworks, but with a non-flammable shell of thick, treated paper.

More digression:

Many items pass through his hands and before his eyes in his profession. He sees many novel things, and many abundant items. Treat all quaint items like that: They exist, they are there, and Garrett has his preferences. Some items are beneath the proud Master Thief, but he will use them to save his skin and taff another day.

I wouldn't mind seeing a more realistic use of molten iron, but it doesn't have to resemble factories as we know them.

I wouldn't mind seeing archers with quivers containing a finite number of arrows.

Since most skilled players hoard more equipment than they use, and really use most of it for the heck of it, not out of necessity, the move Garrett could simply show efficiency, leaving you free to reduce the amount of stuff he carries and finds. The movie Garrett could have encumbrance as a factor. His path out of a building could be based on how weighed down he is. He could leave a bag of loot hidden outside to retrieve later (though that leaves his loot vulnerable, which is best for another story), while he goes back for more. But really, it should focus on the special loot, the mission loot, while the rest is just the cherry on top.

I would like to see The City presented with as much respect as any character.

Things can exist in the periphery that are never used by the characters. Garrett should never be surprised at the existence of anything that the games don't show him being surprised about. Play it straight. Accept the Thief Universe and tell your story within it. Time is the only real constraint. What you will have to do to get the story told quickly is the biggest concern, from my point of view. Establishing the unique nature of that world will eat up most of the time.

I could go on and on, as you know.:tsktsk:




Pick and choose, reject or use.

jtr7 on 2/12/2008 at 01:31

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You're looking at the early concept art that was kept for the manuals. By the time the game was released, the devs had barely settled on the majority of the rules of their universe. Garrett used to have a crossbow and a grappling hook with a length of rope, too. The TMA manual has pictures of people and scenarios that aren't in the games, either. The glass vials for the arrows are still in the texture folders.

Now then, we have the four elements:
-Four Elemental Wards.
-Four Elemental Talismans.
-There were Fire Mages before TDP was released (maybe the other Hand Mages existed, too).
-Fire Elementals.
-Precursor four-element motif.
-Keeper expedition using crystals for survival.
-Four Elemental Portal Anchors to be destroyed with their elemental opposites.
-Elemental crystals are imported from Blackbrook.
-Constantine's Ritual.


What I like to believe is we aren't seeing how Garrett converts the crystals' contents into an arrowhead. It would take too long. We also aren't seeing where he get all his arrow shafts, and where the shafts go when the crystals shatter. TDS solved one problem by making the crystals more shard-like, thus, arrowhead-like. No conversion necessary, but the mystery of the shafts remains.

It's derived from fantasy, and should follow fantasy rules, which are very bendable. Reality can only be imposed so far, and as long as it's done well, and with respect, you'll have fans.

Four missions (in TDP, six in Gold!) were dedicated to retrieving The Eye. All involved the Elemental Talismans, two in a minor role, but all critically important. From the plot stand-point:
One mission got Garrett noticed by Viktoria, who was looking for a candidate to retrieve The Eye.
One mission was testing the candidate, Garrett, to see if he was qualified to try for The Eye.
One mission was a foiled attempt to get The Eye, because Garrett was locked out by four Elemental Wards.
One mission (two in Gold!) was to get two of the Elemental Talismans, so later, he could unlock two of the Elemental Wards, to make another attempt at getting The Eye.
One mission (two in Gold!) was to get the remaining two Elemental Talismans, so later, he could unlock two of the Elemental Wards, to make another attempt at getting The Eye.
One mission was finally getting The Eye.
One mission was switching The Eye with a Fake Eye to stop the fulfillment of Constantine's Dark Project, which involved the elements and then some.


The Fire Arrow from the manual, realised, in a video also featuring the unused SpiderBeast (the texture is still in the folders), and an extra sewer passage that was deleted from under Bafford's, a remnant of which remains in the mission today:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoi-DikIyhk) http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/5360/thief0018ws8.jpg

jtr7 on 2/12/2008 at 03:05

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Yes. Just show respect and the fans will return it.


So, now I'm wondering how much of the silly and famous absurdity you are planning on removing.

jtr7 on 2/12/2008 at 03:41

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Wheee!


It's hard to justify many items in and of themselves, but they are woven into the world and story so that's how I'm justifying their existence. Finding that threshold which is fine for the game, fine for a book, but different for a movie will be tricky. Normally, this would be discovered through test-screenings and sneak previews, but that is not a luxury you have. :D

I would think, with all the goofy stuff in every mission, Dumb Guard aside, that it would make room for other goofy stuff, especially if it's less goofy than the everything else.:laff:

Are the items you listed in the original post all the ones you are personally most concerned with?


Mines: Depends, but I still think black powder should exist.
Vine Arrows: D'oh! Yeah, sorry.:o :laff:

jtr7 on 2/12/2008 at 03:53

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Well, so far I do like what I'm seeing, here. Thanks for putting up with me.:cool: