jtr7 on 3/12/2008 at 00:57
Well, the Trickster does open part of the Maw up through the Hammerite Temple, possibly the same one built when the Hammers relocated from the barricaded part of Old Quarter, with the bodies of the doubters laid into the foundations of it. We see that much of that underground area is actually Hammer-built. They fight off the minions while Garrett closes off the flow of more minions.
I know...but it's more existing Hammery stuff.:p
Chade on 3/12/2008 at 01:07
Quote Posted by The Shroud
Fair point in and of itself. However, my aim is to both maintain authenticity ...
Sure thing ... my suggestions are best ignored, then!
jtr7, I am sure there are other ways to deliver all that which don't involve such a massive halt to the main storyline*. It just depends on how much you want to respect the specific details of the original storyline. I understand that most people around here have considerably more respect for authenticity and "canon" then I do, however, so I won't harp on this point!
* btw, this isn't meant as a negative remark about TDP's story: game stories are primarily about what the player is doing, and the retrieval of four talismans is a great way to get the player to do lots of interesting stuff. But passive entertainment is a different matter altogether.
jtr7 on 3/12/2008 at 04:43
Oh, and not only do the four elements tie into everything...
The movie should honor the gameplay, enough to make it recognizable, but will have to really focus on the story, more than playing the game allows. Hiding in the shadows, and moving in darkness is the most realistic aspect, and few other game-mechanics will translate without revision, omission, or explanation.
The players' focus is distracted by playing the maps, and many players have managed to ignore the story, and most have not been able to retain it in memory, due to the required focus, personal interest in certain environmental aspects, interaction with the environment and inhabitants, and favored play-style. Quite a few game-mechanics will simply not translate to real life:
-Swimming fully-clothed and carrying gear and loot.
-Climbing out of the sewers and not reeking and itching, while not shedding water for hundreds of meters, nor making squishy footsteps.
-Wearing a hood or cloak constantly.
-Sound propagation.
-Explosions won't cause the earth, floors, or walls to shudder.
-All creatures are fairly deaf and have tunnel vision.
-Garrett can stand on a mere wedge of shadow and lean forward into light and not be seen.
Everything won't translate well to real life, and many things won't at all. But we know all this. The story has to be the focus, and the story cannot be judged through a player's point of view, but rather, a writer's.
Andarthiel on 3/12/2008 at 05:11
I know I'll get a lot of complaints about what I'm about to say and that is remove the sword from the movie. Garret is a thief, he doesn't need a sword, a true thief uses dexterous and small weapons(if he needs to kill that is) which can strike quickly so instead he should use a dagger like in TDS. The sword is too clumsy and heavy for a thief anyway.
I still don't understand why they had a sword in T1 and T2.
Beleg Cúthalion on 3/12/2008 at 08:23
It might be not too bad for the enclosed section I guess.
About the rope arrow, don't know if you've read the thread I mentioned, but I once managed to shoot such an (
http://www.bogencenter.de/Spitze+Panzerhemd+II_+mittelalterlich_shop_bestellen.html?action=showArticle&articleId=307414&sid=da5c8988c239a028a30ab5209d2d483b) anti-chainmail arrow head into a plank a little thicker than an inch with a 40lbs bow (which is a toy compared to medieval ones) and I had to saw it out again because it was stuck right in the middle without any chance to get it back. That's why I think my idea could work at least for a movie. All these hollywoodlike sword or dagger throwing things when it's always the blade (and not the pommel, that would be funny though) that hits the bad guy... that's IMHO even more unrealistic. Plus, it would really be some kind of curiosity the movie could afford.
But I hope you focus more on characters and philosophy than your item list suggestes. :p
The Shroud on 3/12/2008 at 14:04
Well obviously a movie is not all about weapons and gadgets. The reason I started this thread is simply to get an idea of what Thief fans' reactions would be to what I've included/left out in terms of Garrett's items. As such, that's the focus in this thread, but this thread isn't the focus of the story.
Beleg, as for your story about the arrow lodged in a plank, that's interesting. I'd actually be thrilled if a rope arrow could embed deeply enough in a surface to support Garrett's weight. However, your arrow wasn't towing a rope in flight or supporting your body weight so it still remains untested. Probably the best thing for me to do is simply consult with an archery expert or an engineer.
Regarding ditching the sword for a dagger, I was actually one of the original proponents for doing just that when we were all talking about our desires for Thief 3. And I have to say I'm glad the developers went through with it. However, it's a slightly different issue when it comes to Constantine's sword in TDP. The reason I've included it in the screenplay has nothing to do with a thief's weapon preference. I've kept it in there due to its role in the story.
I actually considered altering Constantine's sword into a short sword, but I think that would make it somewhat less impressive considering it's supposed to be on such spectacular display in Constantine's mansion. Then again, who knows. What would you guys all think if I made Constantine's sword a short sword?
As for the sword's usefulness to Garrett, in my screenplay its magic (combined with the Talisman of Water) allows him to fend off fire elementals in close combat. It also damages the undead (in the script, not the original game of course). However he loses it (or rather, sacrifices it) during the final sequence in the Maw of Chaos.
As of the 27th voter, here's where we're at with the poll:
Lockpicks: 27 (100%)
Rope arrow: 27 (100%)
Blackjack: 26 (96%)
Water arrows: 25 (93%)
Flash bombs: 24 (89%)
Broadhead arrows: 23 (85%)
Fire arrows: 23 (85%)
Compass: 23 (85%)
Constantine's sword: 22 (81%)
Holy water: 16 (59%)
Noisemaker arrows: 15 (56%)
Gas arrows: 14 (52%)
Moss arrows: 11 (41%)
Gas mines: 8 (30%)
Breath potions: 8 (30%)
Explosive mines: 7 (26%)
Healing potions: 7 (26%)
jtr7 on 3/12/2008 at 19:52
All in all, I'd have to say this thread has been much more positive and constructive than past Thief screenplay threads. Congrats.:D
For me, the biggest concern about Con's Sword, is that it should still be called a sword, and if shortened, should in no way immediately remind people of Bilbo's/Frodo's orc-slaying Sting. It isn't his sword, after all, unless Con had it made with Garrett in mind, which is probably not a favorable approach. Garrett is known to have great upper-body strength (heh heh), so wielding it isn't a problem, wielding it well has always been a problem, and that's canon. It's utilitarian, not really a skill he has. He's familiar, and has some training, but no expert. The sword could be light-weight dark metal, or he could be clumsy using it. People praised the ending fight scene in Rob Roy for the character's awkward and more-realistic use of a weapon he wasn't used to. Garrett doesn't have to be shown as heroic, but ironically heroic. :p I'm not saying he's swinging the sword around at the Elementals like he's wielding a crazy fly-swatter, either.
Beleg Cúthalion on 3/12/2008 at 20:22
Quote Posted by The Shroud
I actually considered altering Constantine's sword into a short sword, but I think that would make it somewhat less impressive considering it's supposed to be on such spectacular display in Constantine's mansion. Then again, who knows. What would you guys all think if I made Constantine's sword a short sword?
(
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1753693#post1753693) There. Are. No. Short swords. Period. Introduce a short sword and I'll lose my respect. :p
However, I think it's not too bad to leave out Garrett's sword but keep Constantine's in. All the adventure-like missions feature it, so it would be in an adequate environment.
The Shroud on 3/12/2008 at 20:24
So jtr7, would you be disappointed if Constantine's sword was shorter? Perhaps the length of a Roman gladius?
Beleg, I understand where you're coming from with leaving out Garrett's sword but keeping Constantine's sword in. That's what I've done presently in the screenplay. What did you mean by "There are no short swords" though?
jtr7 on 3/12/2008 at 20:37
I wouldn't mind at all--in general. It just should invoke "swordiness" (sorry, :eww: ). Here's another silly thought: What if it's really Con's dagger, but it's the size of a sword to Garrett. I'm bringing a wee bit o' Thief Gold into it, what with Little Big World, and all. Also, what would Con be doing with a sword, anyway? It can't really be his personal sword, can it? Part of his disguise, maybe?
