Ryan Smith on 17/1/2015 at 19:42
I realize that trying to change the entire PlayerArm motion system is like looking down a burrick's mouth with a lit match, but if someone had 12 months to figure out a way to make the player's arm moveable by the mouse, what would he need to get out of his way first in order to start working on it?
There is a game called Die by the Sword that mastered this very concept:
[video=youtube;0c8VmtnciDY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c8VmtnciDY&list=UUPdvILGfAYSvB9Q5UKQENjw&index=1&feature=plcp[/video]
LarryG on 17/1/2015 at 20:24
I suspect that he would have to get the idea of doing it with the Dark Engine out of his way.
john9818a on 17/1/2015 at 21:51
:laff:
Ryan Smith on 18/1/2015 at 10:25
Quote Posted by LarryG
I suspect that he would have to get the idea of doing it with the Dark Engine out of his way.
Come on, you can do better than that. Why would the Dark Engine make it impossible in that case?
LarryG on 18/1/2015 at 12:01
Quite simply because the the Dark Engine does not expose any sort of controls to make that possible. You would have to get a hold of the source and rewrite the user interface.
qolelis on 18/1/2015 at 12:52
I haven't done anything with custom motions, so I can't say much about setting up the player arm, but for the rest maybe set-up a system of markers PhysAttach:ed to the player object, so that they follow the player around, but doesn't rotate, and then you make these markers trigger something when hilighted, so when the player turns (or looks up etc...), one of these markers trigger one of your custom motions!? Maybe. I wouldn't bet on it, though, but it's interesting to think about.
LarryG on 18/1/2015 at 17:28
Let me try explaining this in another way. Thief is a game where the primary mode of game play is to obtain your objectives through stealth. The engine is optimized around the stealth mode. It isn't about battling your way through, it is about sneaking your way through. That's why the game is call Thief and not, say, Warrior or Guard. If you want to make a mod in which you kill your way to success with fancy sword movements, you really would be much better off starting with a game which is designed around that concept from the start and using it as your base. What you are suggesting is like trying to stuff a goat into a lion's skin and asking it to act like a lion. You might get something that doesn't look or act entirely like a goat, but it sure as hell isn't a lion.
One other thing. Before you go and try and abuse DromEd to do what you want, try making a couple of simple missions. Learn the strengths and weaknesses, and then reassess your intent. You are in kindergarten and you are asking about post graduate issues. Learn to color between the lines first.
R Soul on 18/1/2015 at 18:49
It would be necessary to find a new way of controlling joint angles. The current mesh motions are all pre-recorded sets of joint angles. The first thing you would need to look into is the possibility of setting specific joints to arbitrary angles. A custom script would be needed, so you'd need to know if scripts can read the mouse position and set joint angles, instead of just playing motions.
And if it can be done, you have to consider if it can be done well. How would you translate mouse movement into good values for shoulder, elbow and wrist joint angles.
The third thing is the effect on player control. Most of us use mouselook, and your sword idea would interfere with that. What would you do about player orientation?
Another thing is the level of interest. If you're doing this for yourself and don't mind if no-one else is interested, that's fine. But if you do care about other people making use of your idea, find out how many people would like it.
Renault on 18/1/2015 at 21:40
I agree with Larry - why put an incredible amount of time into something like this when it's completely counter to what the game is all about? You'd be better off trying to implement something like this in Skyrim or Dragon Age as opposed to Thief. There's plenty of better ideas you can invest in that are specific to Thief and/or stealth than something random like this.
Think of the end result too - what purpose does it serve? At least with something like TypeRed's go cart project, it's got the humor factor going for it.
Ryan Smith on 24/1/2015 at 21:31
Quote Posted by LarryG
Quite simply because the the Dark Engine does not expose any sort of controls to make that possible. You would have to get a hold of the source and rewrite the user interface.
I'll take that answer.
Quote Posted by LarryG
Let me try explaining this in another way. Thief is a game where the primary mode of game play is to obtain your objectives through stealth. The engine is optimized around the stealth mode. It isn't about battling your way through, it is about sneaking your way through. That's why the game is call Thief and not, say, Warrior or Guard. If you want to make a mod in which you kill your way to success with fancy sword movements, you really would be much better off starting with a game which is designed around that concept from the start and using it as your base. What you are suggesting is like trying to stuff a goat into a lion's skin and asking it to act like a lion. You might get something that doesn't look or act entirely like a goat, but it sure as hell isn't a lion.
One other thing. Before you go and try and abuse DromEd to do what you want, try making a couple of simple missions. Learn the strengths and weaknesses, and then reassess your intent. You are in kindergarten and you are asking about post graduate issues. Learn to color between the lines first.
I don't even know how to build a level, let alone a complete overhaul of Thief itself. That said though, I just realized while it's not possible at this moment for Thief, it is possible to change Die By the Sword into something reminiscent of Thief, since what I wanted to do from the very start of this thread is already in the game, all I would need to do is make some stylistic changes and learn how to design levels.
Quote Posted by Brethren
I agree with Larry - why put an incredible amount of time into something like this when it's completely counter to what the game is all about? You'd be better off trying to implement something like this in Skyrim or Dragon Age as opposed to Thief. There's plenty of better ideas you can invest in that are specific to Thief and/or stealth than something random like this.
Think of the end result too - what purpose does it serve? At least with something like TypeRed's go cart project, it's got the humor factor going for it.
If I want to suffer a lifetime of frustration and despair to make this thing, you should be glad I don't expect you to as well. On a side note however, I don't know about mouse-controlled movements in Thief, but actually, it is technically doable to remodel Die By the Sword after Thief, and it even uses stealth mechanics to an extent. The thing I want is already in there to begin with, all I would need to do is change the models, the textures, the sounds and music, which I already know how to do.
I wanted to do this because I wanted to. What purpose does it serve? Someone else might like the idea and want to take it further, assuming it's doable. It might even be fun.
