Elentari on 15/4/2006 at 22:42
Well, after dying for the 50th time trying to get down to the heart in the bonehorde, I finally decided what changes *I* would make to the games if I were to create one. . .or if I were to rewrite them. Or whatever.
After falling to my doom - or rather Garrett's doom at least 20 times in 10 minutes. . . I think there should be some response to that. Let it keep record of how many times you die and reload. . .and have him start complaining after the 5th death in a row.
"Stop doing that!"
"Do you *enjoy* making me suffer?"
"Why are you doing this to me?"
So it'd only make the player feel guilty. . .but honestly. I am so clumsy with him its a wonder he DOESN'T start complaining more. :laff:
Clyp on 16/4/2006 at 00:06
I've seen this thing implemented, but can't remember which game it was...
ganac on 16/4/2006 at 00:33
I'd like to make it hard by loosing the whole
*noise*
'huh?'
'must have been nothing"
*noise*
'huh?'
'must have been nothing"
*noise*
'huh?'
'must have been nothing"
*noise*
'huh?'
'must have been nothing"
*noise*
'huh?'
'must have been nothing"
Elentari on 16/4/2006 at 01:08
Improved AI memory you mean? As in:
*noise*
'huh?'
'must have been nothing"
*noise*
'that was definitely something'
*goes into search mode*
*settles down after he doesn't find anything*
*noise*
'definitely something there!'
*sounds an alarm*
? *grins* Certainly would make things difficult if they held more of a record. Worse if it kept it after a reload.
I'd love to see that in games, though. Even Thief. Some sort of memory thing going on. Remember deaths, so the char can complain (I don't see any actual 'punishment' . . .but complaining would be cool. Either rattle the player or make them feel guilty.) And AI memory could certainly be better.
Although, I know AI memory was scripted - at least in part - in Morrowind. If you were seen changing into a werewolf, it was forgotten after a time. Not for awhile, but some time. Or, was that a mod? I can't remember.
Spiders on 16/4/2006 at 02:45
Quote Posted by Clyp
I've seen this thing implemented, but can't remember which game it was...
Might you be remembering the FM called
Gussie's Dream? The player character in this mission (it's not Garrett) seems almost amused whenever he gets killed, and he cheerfully discusses his predicament as he lies dying. I recall one of his exclamations being something like, "I say, that hurt! Dear me, I seem to be
dead!"
DarkElf_Mairead on 16/4/2006 at 03:17
I remember several years ago playing Top Gun: Fire at Will. You could turn off crashes so you bounce off the water and land. Sometimes when you do that your RIO would say something like "Boing!" or "Hey that's not water, that's bitmap! Cheater!" I love it when characters sometimes say something that's not gamish, if you know what I mean. Like Edwin in Baldur's Gate 2 saying something about pointing and clicking.
Episkopos Stephanus on 16/4/2006 at 06:05
Quote Posted by Elentari
Improved AI memory you mean? As in:
*noise*
'huh?'
'must have been nothing"
*noise*
'that was definitely something'
*goes into search mode*
*settles down after he doesn't find anything*
*noise*
'definitely something there!'
*sounds an alarm*
To be more realistic, they shouldn't always vocalise their changes in alertness. NPCs in the Thief games generally talk too much!
In the last scenes of Full Throttle, the main character could die, and he would say "Ouch. Let me try that again" before letting you attempt the scene again. :)
Cerebration on 16/4/2006 at 09:09
Am I imagining it or did the guards in TDS back down from alert quicker than in TDP or TMA?
I was looking at old reviews of TDS the other day and this was one of the main criticisms of the AI. Some kind of memory would definitely be the way to go, and it would be better than simply keeping guards on alert for longer - the player may just get frustrated and load up a saved game instead of working their way out of the situation. In fact, this is probably one of the biggest difficulties in the Thief AI - you only really see it working at its best when you've done something wrong and you've decided not to restart the level.
And another AI issue: there are lots of other stealth games out there but don't they all have the advantage of ranged combat? It strikes me that any deficiency in AI (especially pathfinding) can be masked by the fact that an NPC can start shooting at you from a distance. In Thief, a lowly sword guard has to cover a lot of ground before attacking you.
Soul Shaker on 16/4/2006 at 14:20
Quote Posted by Spiders
Might you be remembering the FM called
Gussie's Dream? The player character in this mission (it's not Garrett) seems almost amused whenever he gets killed, and he cheerfully discusses his predicament as he lies dying. I recall one of his exclamations being something like, "I say, that hurt! Dear me, I seem to be
dead!"
Wouldn't that just give more reason to die?
@ Cerebration, they do, in fact. (mind you, this is what i've heard)
In expert TDS, they have a search stamina of something like 1.12 or 1.13 in expert. TDP and TMA, they have something like 1.5 or so. I'm pretty sure that there's a mod that does this...
Clyp on 16/4/2006 at 15:52
Quote Posted by Elentari
Improved AI memory you mean? As in:
*noise*
'huh?'
'must have been nothing"
*noise*
'that was definitely something'
*goes into search mode*
*settles down after he doesn't find anything*
*noise*
'definitely something there!'
*sounds an alarm*
iirc, that's how the AI in Splinter Cell 3 works. With the exception of sounding the alarm - they just become paranoid to a point where they will shoot in the dark if you produce another noise.
