Azaran on 30/9/2010 at 08:40
So, after 4 days of intense play, over 20 hours of gameplay total, I finally finished Thief 3, so I thought I'd post my thoughts.
First, initially I was extremely annoyed with Garret's movement. I first downloaded the demo about a month ago, and I couldn't play for more than 5 minutes without getting sick of it (it's like Garrett's walking in mud or something :(). But thankfully, after installing the full game I found this "Thief minimalist" patch which corrects Garret's movement (still not as good as T1 and 2, but good enough) and makes the interface more like Thief 1 and 2, so that was a huge relief.
Well, here's my pros and cons.
Pros:
- Stunning graphics
- Extremely Realistic AI behaviour
- The possibility of exploring the City between missions
- The Cradle (need I say more ;))
- The Hammer-Pagan faction system
- Climbing gloves (I still prefer rope arrows, but those gloves are friggin awesome)
- The "steal - sell - buy system", and tools carrying over into all the missions
- The new enemies (I loved the statues)
- The new uses for moss arrows (especially choking opponents :ebil:)
- Hot Pagan chicks :cool:
Cons:
- Garret's clumsy movement (making it next to impossible to outrun opponents :()
- The crooked bow aim, which takes a while to get used to when you're used to Thief 1 and 2
- The dagger. Initially, before I actually used it, I liked the idea of a dagger (a stealthy, assassin weapon). In practice, it proved to be totally useless (except against the Cradle staff - if you crouch and stab them you can kill them easy and they can't reach you, or for backstabs, but I'd rather use the blackjack for these). Using it against sword guards, Hammers, Zombies, Haunts,etc. in frontal combat was pretty much suicide 8 times out of 10 for me. I hope they bring back the sword in Thief 4. You're completely disadvantaged against your opponents who have more reach.
- Little or no possibility of successful frontal combat (due to the absence of the sword), except near the end, when you can blackjack Gamall's statues and destroy them.
- Game interface: I like to see what my health level is all the time, not just when I'm getting my butt kicked :mad:. Thief 1 and 2 had a great interface - I found Thief 3's to be problematic and hard to adjust to when you've been playing the other games for over 8 years.
- With the previous point in mind, another mistake was that the creators of Thief 3 tried to make the game appealing to the general market, instead of taking the Thief community into consideration.
In any case, putting aside the cons, I was very impressed. I still give Thief 1 and 2 slightly higher marks for gameplay and weaponry, but Thief 3 was brilliant.
LordBafford on 30/9/2010 at 09:41
I think TDS is an excellent game although I do have some serious issues with it which irritate me.
For me,
Pros
Dynamic Shadows (very nice that your body and the environment affect the shadows in the world).
Graphics, i.e. The grandeur of St. Edgar's Church (main hall) and the cosiness of Garrett's apartment. I do like the sparkling bloom through windows.
Great story (better than TMA)
More sensitive AI, the AI are a lot more aware if you steal their valuables (purses), items, if light sources are doused, doors are opened, and if you bump into them. Also liked the increased interaction between AI.
Lockpicks (the more complex locks took some time with the mouse to open, and I liked how you could look around the room while lock-picking, on the look out for AI)
Music, as ever Eric's music is fantastic, and for me TDS has the best soundtrack in the series.
The city, for side missions and exploration.
Generally easier mantling
Return of the Hammerites as a major faction (my favourite faction, "Swing, Brother, Swing!")
Cons
Jerky movement (feels really clumsy unlike TDP and TMA's smooth movements).
Blue misty loading zones. Levels and the City were annoyingly split into several sections, which made them feel like small areas. Unlike the huge levels in TDP/Gold and TMA.
Removal of rope arrows and inability to swim. I really missed both of the original features. I like the climbing gloves, but would much prefer to have rope/vine arrows.
Removal of briefing videos - This seriously ticked me off, as it was such an integral part of TDP and TMA.
Very CPU intensive, I admit I don't have the newest computer, but I've read that most people get low FPS unless they reduce the resolution, etc. As result I have to play with a low resolution and less details for it to be tolerable.
Character Animation - When AI walk, they tend to stutter a lot (not smooth at all).
Character design - I really dislike how the human AI look in TDS, massive bug eyes, weird cheeks, massive hands, their bodies don't look to be in proportion and the beards look laughably bad.
Ragdoll physics - most times when someone dies, their bodies go into extreme positions which would break bones.
Equipment before missions - TDS often felt like Rambo in how much you could take into a mission, with some re-spawning elemental arrows in the City, and the shops, in many missions you *could* be heavily equipped with mines, oil flasks, etc. (Not that I would use them, as I try to ghost as much as possible).
The City - It got a bit tiresome having to go through the same areas several times.
Keeper Enforcers - Ridiculous, the Keepers suddnely are in plain view of everyone and to make matters worse they massacre anyone in sight for 'interference... (They did look cool though).
Main menu - I much preferred the steampunk menus of TDP and TMA.
The Cradle for me was sheer horror, I didn't play the game for some weeks until I could continue playing the level. I lost count how many times I shouted.
I rate the series as follows:
1. TDP/Gold
2. TMA
3. TDS
Although TDS does have its many flaws, I do highly enjoy it.
DJ Riff on 30/9/2010 at 10:04
Quote Posted by Azaran
Using it against sword guards, Hammers, Zombies, Haunts,etc. in frontal combat was pretty much suicide 8 times out of 10 for me.
Just crouch and rush into your opponent holding attack button. Bring up healing potions and heal yourself each time your HP falls less than half. With instant heal it's almost God-mode.
Quote Posted by Azaran
- Game interface: I like to see what my health level is all the time, not just when I'm getting my butt kicked :mad:.
Bring up healing potion and you'll see them :)
Digital Nightfall on 30/9/2010 at 17:53
Quote Posted by Azaran
- With the previous point in mind, another mistake was that the creators of Thief 3 tried to make the game appealing to the general market, instead of taking the Thief community into consideration.
Kinda makes you wonder how LGS managed to pull off the original Thief, with no existing community to appeal to. Maybe they tried to make it appeal to the market in general?
ZylonBane on 30/9/2010 at 18:50
They made it to appeal to MIT grads, of course.
Azaran on 1/10/2010 at 02:23
Quote Posted by Digital Nightfall
Kinda makes you wonder how LGS managed to pull off the original Thief, with no existing community to appeal to. Maybe they tried to make it appeal to the market in general?
Yeah, but there was no Thief fanbase before that.
Azaran on 1/10/2010 at 03:28
Quote Posted by LordBafford
Very CPU intensive, I admit I don't have the newest computer, but I've read that most people get low FPS unless they reduce the resolution, etc. As result I have to play with a low resolution and less details for it to be tolerable.
I have a new dual core system I bought about 3 months ago, with 4 gigs of ram, and a 256 mb video card (all way beyond the recommended requirements for Thief DS), and yet my game's choppy if I run it higher than 800x600. Go figure :confused:
Quote Posted by LordBafford
The Cradle for me was sheer horror, I didn't play the game for some weeks until I could continue playing the level. I lost count how many times I shouted.
I got the crap scared out of me a couple of times there, the first time
walking by the meal area where there was a puppet lying down in the shadows and I didn't see him until he leapt up screaming in my face...I almost fell of my chair :sweat: Then later I hit one with a fire arrow and he went down. Thinking he was dead, I casually walked over his body and he lunged at me and killed me....
Good times :cool:
MILO1985 on 5/10/2010 at 03:09
Quote Posted by Azaran
I have a new dual core system I bought about 3 months ago, with 4 gigs of ram, and a 256 mb video card (all way beyond the recommended requirements for Thief DS), and yet my game's choppy if I run it higher than 800x600. Go figure :confused:
I got the crap scared out of me a couple of times there, the first time
walking by the meal area where there was a puppet lying down in the shadows and I didn't see him until he leapt up screaming in my face...I almost fell of my chair :sweat: Then later I hit one with a fire arrow and he went down. Thinking he was dead, I casually walked over his body and he lunged at me and killed me....
Good times :cool:
You bought a 256 mb video card in 2010? Lol, where did you even find one, I didn't know they still make those. Which 1 is it? Sounds like that's your problem right there.
Azaran on 5/10/2010 at 04:56
Quote Posted by MILO1985
You bought a 256 mb video card in 2010? Lol, where did you even find one, I didn't know they still make those. Which 1 is it? Sounds like that's your problem right there.
It's an Nvidia Geforce 7100. It came included in the PC I bought. And yeah, they still sell 256mb cards in every store I've been to (though it is the lowest they sell now). But considering Thief 3 is supposed to run on 64mb cards,
in theory 256 mb should be more than enough :erg:
Melan on 5/10/2010 at 06:00
Quote Posted by Azaran
- The new enemies (
I loved the statues)
They get little attention because they appear late and fewer people play TDS than the other games, but I think they are great enemies that fit perfectly into the game's style. Plus their voices are super-creepy. Assassins are also a cool concept, although as implemented, they don't work as well as if they completely ignored AI and vice versa, or if they could hunt you in a coordinated way...
