Yandros on 7/11/2017 at 14:38
FM authors don't choose that as far as I know.
GORT on 7/11/2017 at 19:27
That might be from "Unknown Treasure". But that only happens if you did something that you shouldn't have done. (ex: killing or leaving bodies in exposed areas for AIs to find.)
Esme on 8/11/2017 at 12:19
Quote Posted by Yandros
FM authors don't choose that as far as I know.
I've had it in at least one mission, for example I had a well lit area to cross with an AI sightline on it, there didn't appear to be a way of creating shadows, I had a good scout round for an alternative route & didn't find one, I may have missed it in which case kudos for hiding it well, but I decided to take out the AI to make it a little simpler, not my preferred way but needs must.
I found a place of concealment, lets call it A, with a difficultish shot at the AI I needed to take out, verified I wasn't visible by sitting there with weapons drawn as AI patrols went on obliviously, took out the AI & was promptly killed by another.
I reloaded, took some time & created a second place of concealment, call it B, not as good as the first one, but good enough, the shot was a lot harder but I eventually made it after several reloads and then I watched an AI barrel up to my original place of concealment at A & start searching, there was nothing to give me away at A because I wasn't there, it wasn't on a patrol route or I wouldn't have chosen it, but the AI knew to go there.
I reloaded again & just ran through the well lit bit, trying to keep to the slightest shadow & timing it while the AI was looking somewhere else, still triggered the AI but I eventually lost it.
So it looked like taking out one AI didn't give away my position but the author knew where I was likely to be & sent an AI to that place.
I don't know if that's what actually happened or if it was a result of the AI being boosted somehow, but this is Thief, you're supposed to be able to hide in the shadows and take out the odd AI if you need to, if an AI is aware of a location that is likely to contain a player then it should get patrolled now and then.
The mission itself was otherwise superb, technically brilliant, highly imaginative and I am not going to criticise the author for preferring a different playstyle to me, it's my personal preference.
nicked on 8/11/2017 at 12:49
Sounds like just the AI pathfinding algorithms being a bit overly predictable, probably more or less noticeable depending on the layout of the area.
AI search parameters are mostly out of a mission author's hands - certainly in terms of where they search. You could script an AI to go to a particular place based on alert level or similar, but it probably wouldn't look natural.
Esme on 8/11/2017 at 16:05
If it was pathfinding then lacking any other giveaway I would expect an AI to go to where the body or disturbance was not to the place the player is most likely to be.
The second time the AI went to the place I reckoned was best for the shot, not to where I actually was, so I doubt it was me giving my position away and it was a long way from the AI that was taken out, I couldn't get close.
And if I missed a way of getting close then even more kudos for hiding that.
Again it's just a personal preference, I don't like this particular mechanic, other people may love it.
Anyway I've said my bit.
trefoilknot on 8/11/2017 at 16:18
Fire it up in DromEd and see if it was designed this way. Does the AI in question have some custom behavior?
Absent that, I don't think this could be considered a design choice by the author.
john9818a on 10/11/2017 at 16:59
Quote Posted by trefoilknot
I've noticed this before, too. Is this something the FM author chooses? Or is it just a quirk of the engine?
I can see the scenario where patrolling AI go to where another AI once was... The author is simulating the suspicions of the patrolling AI. The AI supposedly act suspicious because the AI you took out is missing. The author would have to do something to make a AI break away from the route and perform a search motion while the AI is not actually alerted.
There was a mission that was released not long ago which used the tactic where the patrolling AI went to an anticipated location and performed a search motion. The first time I was at the location and the second time I wasn't, and it doesn't seem natural for a guard to "search" the same spot every time he/she passes by.
DarkThief Darek on 20/11/2017 at 23:39
What I really like in FMs is when they focus more on the thief-gameplay aspect of the game. Well build architecture and high res textures/models are nice and all, but I value the original gameplay aspect far more. This means you can progress through (most) parts of the FM freely without many restrictions. There are multiple ways to get to your destination and avoid guarded places. This includes that you can avoid all guards in a sneaky playstyle (ghost the FM) and find secret places and/or shortcuts.
Also, an elaborate guard patrol system is always welcome (just like in all OMs), because then you need to be careful in sneaking past them. In my opinion, there is nothing more satisfying if you need to rely on hearing the guards and predict their movement instead of seeing were they are because of lazy guard patrols.
What I dislike is when the author doesn't integrate the AI into the FM very well. I sometimes have the feeling in an otherwise well-made map, the author rushed the AI in the end to just complete the mission.
Either all AIs walk from place A to B or just stand still (even the non-guards). Guards often patrol a tiny corridor in a big mansion or guard a spot that doesn't even secure the area from a logical viewpoint. (and doesn't you all know the kitchen servant that walks in circles in the kitchen All. The. Time? :D )
On the one hand, it feels unbelievable for a guard/servant to always walk back and forth a small corridor and on the other hand it is far too easy to avoid them or far too tedious to sneak past them all the time when you want to ghost the mission.
I like when they also look around, do some animations or just walk complex routes instead of just always walk in lines/circles. ^^
pavlovscat on 21/11/2017 at 05:10
Good - I love an interesting story with well-written, supporting read-ables, especially the humorous ones.
Bad - It's annoying when places that look shadowy aren't.
pavlovscat on 21/11/2017 at 05:12
Quote Posted by DarkThief Darek
What I really like in FMs is when they focus more on the thief-gameplay aspect of the game. Well build architecture and high res textures/models are nice and all, but I value the original gameplay aspect far more. This means you can progress through (most) parts of the FM freely without many restrictions. There are multiple ways to get to your destination and avoid guarded places. This includes that you can avoid all guards in a sneaky playstyle (ghost the FM) and find secret places and/or shortcuts.
I agree. Non-linear game play is sadly lacking in modern games. I don't want to hurry up and "beat" the game. I want to savor & explore.
