Need some help with researching real life thieving

TheNightTerror on 1/2/2006 at 02:13

This is a little off topic, but I need some help researching some thieving elements of a story I want to write. I asked for help elsewhere, but I doubt I'll get much, so I'll ask here. :)

Do you guys know a place that has information relating to thieves in the early 1900's? I need some information on what kind of tools a thief working in England would have, the kind of weapons, etc. And, I need to know what kind of locks the thief would come across. I found plenty of information on how to pick locks, but I'm only 1% sure locks from then would have lever locks.

Thanks for any help. :thumb:

godofgamers on 1/2/2006 at 02:50

weapons: none; he doesn't want to get tried for murder.
Tools: crowbar, possibly bolt cutter, bag, lockpicks

OrbWeaver on 1/2/2006 at 14:54

Quote Posted by godofgamers

weapons: none; he doesn't want to get tried for murder.
Tools: crowbar, possibly bolt cutter, bag, lockpicks

She said she wanted historical information, not vague armchair speculation.

The lever lock was invented in 1778 so they would certainly have existed in the early 1900s.

jay pettitt on 2/2/2006 at 00:27

Lock Picking isn't a particularly obvious choice for a bit of burglary. It takes a long time.

You might want to google Charles Peace / Deacon Brodie / Conan Doyle.

SD on 2/2/2006 at 01:11

Yeah, while they did have quite complex locks back then (and I'm able to confirm that, since I own a house which dates from around 1890 ;)) I would have to agree that lockpicks would be a luxury that most burglars could not afford, as well as being a time-consuming method of entry. House-breakers tend to favour force over stealth.

A crowbar would be the obvious tool, though it would likely be referred to as a jemmy. Some sort of blunt, less-lethal weapon, such as a billy club or cosh might well have been carried. Perhaps also a cloth to dampen the noise of smashed glass?

TheNightTerror on 2/2/2006 at 12:32

Quote Posted by godofgamers

weapons: none; he doesn't want to get tried for murder.

Weapons aren't necessarily lethal if you're careful. ;)

Quote Posted by OrbWeaver

She said she wanted historical information, not vague armchair speculation.

If I wanted that, I would've just taken a wild guess on my own. :angel:

Quote:

The lever lock was invented in 1778 so they would certainly have existed in the early 1900s.

It looks like they were in use, too. I wasn't sure whether they'd be obsolete, but I did more research, and judging by the different photos I found of lever locks, they were still in use in the late '30's, and they were also used in the place I'm setting the story. :cheeky:

Quote Posted by jay pettitt

Lock Picking isn't a particularly obvious choice for a bit of burglary. It takes a long time.

How long for a very skilled person?

Quote:

You might want to google Charles Peace / Deacon Brodie / Conan Doyle.

Charles Peace turned up some very useful information, I found a Wikipedia page that listed some of the equipment he used. :thumb:

Quote Posted by Strontium Dog

Yeah, while they did have quite complex locks back then (and I'm able to confirm that, since I own a house which dates from around 1890 ;))

Do you know what type of lock, exactly? Is it something other than a lever lock?

Quote:

I would have to agree that lockpicks would be a luxury that most burglars could not afford,

Ah, the little bastards are expensive to boot? :sweat: I wrote in a sub-plot explaining that my thief got them, hopefully it should cover that side of things adequately.

Quote:

as well as being a time-consuming method of entry. House-breakers tend to favour force over stealth.

Ah, all right, I'll keep that in mind. My thief will be ending up on a ship, so she'll have to be very careful about hiding the fact anything happened. If she didn't, the entire ship would know about the robberies before she had a chance to get to land.

Quote:

Some sort of blunt, less-lethal weapon, such as a billy club or cosh might well have been carried.

I ended up settling on a cosh. :thumb:

Quote:

Perhaps also a cloth to dampen the noise of smashed glass?

How would that work, would you drape a cloth over the glass you're going to break? That would probably only muffle the noise if you were outside, guess you'd have to be damned careful to make sure nobody's anywhere in the area. :eek:

OrbWeaver on 2/2/2006 at 12:41

Quote Posted by TheNightTerror

They are (http://www.worldofbrass.co.uk/shop/89/88/) still in use today, and generally superior in security to the cylinder/pin-tumbler lock.

skynet01 on 2/2/2006 at 13:04

Have you ever read Sherlock Holmes adventures? They are a good source on criminal methods, not only thievery though.

jay pettitt on 2/2/2006 at 14:43

Quote Posted by TheNightTerror

How long for a very skilled person?

Between half an hour and all morning, depending on wether or not you're having a good day.

Solabusca on 2/2/2006 at 16:52

(http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/cops_others/worth/1.html) Adam Worth is the man you're looking for.

(http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/outlaws/charles_peace/index.html) Charles Peace may give you some more background.

Do give Herbert Asbury's (http://www.herbertasbury.com/gangsofnewyork/) Gangs of New York a read-through, as well.

(http://cityofshadows.stegenga.net/london.html) City of Shadows has some interesting sections - to my mind, the (http://www.umich.edu/~risotto/) Victorian Poverty Map is an invaluable resource.

Do try and track down The Victorian Underworld as well - or, for a fictional spin on things, The Anubis Gates does wonders.

.j.