Pheonix on 6/7/2013 at 23:56
I know it isn't a major problem, but NewDark seems to have a problem with certain calculations. There are only 2 examples I've found so far, and they are both in T2X - Shadows of the Metal Age.
Mission 8, "The Art of Deception" has 4 secrets. However, at mission start 2 of them are destroyed depending on the difficulty setting. OldDark calculated available secrets after 2 were destroyed, correctly listing only 2 in the stats. NewDark seems to be calculating the number before they were destroyed, or else doesn't actually destroy the secret marker, just the access point. So, in NewDark the stats report 4 secrets, but 2 of them are unreachable, because access was destroyed or blocked because of the current difficulty settings.
Mission 12, "The Cure" has a slightly different issue (though related.) The stats in OldDark claim there is only 1 secret, even though you can actually find 2. So OldDark allowed one of the secrets to be "hidden" from the stats in some way (no idea how that was done.) However, NewDark correctly reports 2 secrets as available. Fixing this would just return the mission to the way the designers intended it to be.
jaxa on 7/7/2013 at 00:22
Whoops, didn't realize the texture pack was not yet released. On to TFix.
kdau on 7/7/2013 at 03:54
Quote Posted by Pheonix
I know it isn't a major problem, but NewDark seems to have a problem with certain calculations. There are only 2 examples I've found so far, and they are both in T2X - Shadows of the Metal Age.
Mission 8, "The Art of Deception" has 4 secrets. However, at mission start 2 of them are destroyed depending on the difficulty setting. OldDark calculated available secrets after 2 were destroyed, correctly listing only 2 in the stats. NewDark seems to be calculating the number before they were destroyed, or else doesn't actually destroy the secret marker, just the access point. So, in NewDark the stats report 4 secrets, but 2 of them are unreachable, because access was destroyed or blocked because of the current difficulty settings.
I'm pretty sure there are only two proper secrets in Deception, per both the official walkthrough and my query of the mission in DromEd. The problem is that the "Dark GameSys\Stats" property is set to "Hidden" on both the secret objects and the FindSecretTraps they're (unnecessarily) linked to. I was able to fix it by removing the property from the secret objects themselves (though deleting the traps would be better). If this worked as-is in OldDark, then the regression would be that NewDark no longer detects and fixes the redundancy.
Quote:
Mission 12, "The Cure" has a slightly different issue (though related.) The stats in OldDark claim there is only 1 secret, even though you can actually find 2. So OldDark allowed one of the secrets to be "hidden" from the stats in some way (no idea how that was done.) However, NewDark correctly reports 2 secrets as available. Fixing this would just return the mission to the way the designers intended it to be.
The usual way this is done is a quest var trap, but I couldn't find any in Cure. There are custom script modules for T2X, so the fix might be coded there, in which case we'd need to rely on Nameless Voice keeping old source code or having a very long memory. (I'm guessing that, wherever it is, the fix sets the count to 1 instead of decreasing it by 1, relying on the engine doing its own count at a particular time.)
Pheonix on 7/7/2013 at 05:07
Quote Posted by kdau
I'm pretty sure there are only two proper secrets in Deception, per both the official walkthrough and my query of the mission in DromEd. The problem is that the "Dark GameSys\Stats" property is set to "Hidden" on both the secret objects and the FindSecretTraps they're (unnecessarily) linked to. I was able to fix it by removing the property from the secret objects themselves (though deleting the traps would be better). If this worked as-is in OldDark, then the regression would be that NewDark no longer detects and fixes the redundancy.
The usual way this is done is a quest var trap, but I couldn't find any in Cure. There are custom script modules for T2X, so the fix might be coded there, in which case we'd need to rely on Nameless Voice keeping old source code or having a very long memory. (I'm guessing that, wherever it is, the fix sets the count to 1 instead of decreasing it by 1, relying on the engine doing its own count at a particular time.)
I've played Deception on all 3 difficulties, though it has been a long time now. I seem to recall that each setting had different secrets, though I cannot remember any of them. I've recently played it again on all 3 settings, and only the bookcase/safe is present in all three. The roof gas arrow/ladder is only there on Expert, though. The problem is that I cannot seem to find a walkthrough for Normal or Hard, only Expert. I have opened it up in DromED and the ladder itself is set to "destroy" on "Difficulty 0,1". I'm not that good at using DromEd, though, so I have no idea how secrets are created in the first place, or how to find them in DromEd in an existing mission. I was only able to examine this one by manually moving to it's location and examining the ladder. I'm also wondering if there is a way to get a list of "destroy" triggers and look for "Difficulty 0,2" and "Difficulty 1,2" and see if there are any.
The thing is, I have my save games from the first play through. Perfect stat max loot saves, so that any mission could be chosen by selecting the correct save. I save right after the end of a mission so that the files were a lot smaller than normal save games (21-24k each.) My save entry for the next mission (done at the end of this one,) is set to Expert, and I always used the easiest setting with the most loot to make the save. That would mean that this should have been done on Normal (since all 3 difficulties have the same loot total.) This makes me think that I never could find a second secret on Normal or Hard, and just went with Expert to keep the stats perfect.
kdau on 7/7/2013 at 05:37
Quote Posted by Pheonix
I've played Deception on all 3 difficulties, though it has been a long time now. I seem to recall that each setting had different secrets, though I cannot remember any of them. I've recently played it again on all 3 settings, and only the bookcase/safe is present in all three. The roof gas arrow/ladder is only there on Expert, though. The problem is that I cannot seem to find a walkthrough for Normal or Hard, only Expert. I have opened it up in DromED and the ladder itself is set to "destroy" on "Difficulty 0,1". I'm not that good at using DromEd, though, so I have no idea how secrets are created in the first place, or how to find them in DromEd in an existing mission. I was only able to examine this one by manually moving to it's location and examining the ladder. I'm also wondering if there is a way to get a list of "destroy" triggers and look for "Difficulty 0,2" and "Difficulty 1,2" and see if there are any.
Secrets all require the Dark GameSys\Stats property to be set to Hidden. Only four objects (two for each of two secrets) in Deception have that set, so all the others (including the arrow and ladder) don't officially count. (In NewDark, you can search for all the copies of a property - both archetypes and concrete objects - by using the "Query" button in the Object Hierarchy. Note that an inherited property is only listed once, so you have to search for all instances of an archetype with it separately.)
Quote:
The thing is, I have my save games from the first play through. Perfect stat max loot saves, so that any mission could be chosen by selecting the correct save. I save right after the end of a mission so that the files were a lot smaller than normal save games (21-24k each.) My save entry for the next mission (done at the end of this one,) is set to Expert, and I always used the easiest setting with the most loot to make the save. That would mean that this should have been done on Normal (since all 3 difficulties have the same loot total.) This makes me think that I never could find a second secret on Normal or Hard, and just went with Expert to keep the stats perfect.
The second secret in The Cure is the very-hard-to-find Easter egg area. I can understand why they wanted to keep it out of the official count. :)
Pheonix on 7/7/2013 at 07:32
Yeah, just figured that all out. Also did some experimenting. I removed the Hidden flag on 2 of the objects (the same ones you did, the room and the cabinet.) Then on the Duncan's room trap I added in the "Dificulty/Destroy 0,1" flag. Process, save, load, and now Normal & Hard list 1 secret and Expert lists 2. So, now stats report correctly with NewDark. I also know why I used Expert for that save with my OldDark saves, because the secret flags were not destroyed along with the access to that secret on Normal & Hard (so stats could not be perfect except on Expert.) I guess that originally, the mission slipped through a loop-hole or error correction of OldDark that NewDark didn't include. If I can get a hold of whoever is making the T2X upgrade, maybe I can get them to make that change in the package they are putting together (the beta is on the TFix thread.)
As for "The Cure", I would very much like to see if there is a way to get it back to 2 of 1 secrets found. Here is where I find a problem, though. Hidden is on one item only. However, the base object (?? the entry the object is based on,) FindSecretTrap (-50) has the hidden flag. I'm guessing that the trap that is actually placed in the map doesn't that originally, the writers just deleted that flag and OldDark then didn't count it as a secret, but that the flag on the base object (??) still triggered the found secret script (or whatever - not very good at this really.) However, NewDark uses the base object (??) setting when calculating this since the placed object doesn't have that setting at all. So, I experimented by actually adding the setting as [none] on the placed object. It now lists only 1 secret but entering the Easter egg no longer triggers as a secret. That is as far as I can get to fix that :( About the only thing I can think of is to find a script that will tick the secret up (and play the secret found sound, and display the secret found message,) even though the trap is no longer listed as hidden. Alternatively, I guess we could just change it to a bonus/hidden objective, but that would make it digress from what was originally intended (IMHO.)
voodoo47 on 7/7/2013 at 07:45
I'm the one who has stitched up the beta fixup package, for better or worse. if you have some fixed maps/files/whatever, just send them to me and I will add them to the package. do note that you'd better triple check this, as I won't be able to - my Dromeding skills are a bit too shabby for the stuff mentioned in the last couple of posts.
Pheonix on 8/7/2013 at 02:20
OK, got Deception fixed for anyone running NewDark. If you have miss25.mis.dml already add the following lines to it:
Code:
// Secrets fix
-ObjProp 183 "DarkStat"
-ObjProp 628 "DarkStat"
+ObjProp 1847 "DiffDestroy"
{
"quest var values" 0, 1
}
If you don't have that file, create it and edit it to be:
Code:
DML1
// Secrets fix
-ObjProp 183 "DarkStat"
-ObjProp 628 "DarkStat"
+ObjProp 1847 "DiffDestroy"
{
"quest var values" 0, 1
}
A good text editor should work just fine. Notepad or Wordpad seem to be just fine for me so far.
Still trying to figure out if there is a way to fix Cure or not.
kdau on 8/7/2013 at 02:56
Quote Posted by Pheonix
Still trying to figure out if there is a way to fix Cure or not.
Try adding the following via DML to any trap object without its own Script property that's guaranteed to be triggered during the mission (preferably one triggered by Sim or an initially-on lever):
* Scripts: TrapSetQVar
* Trap\Quest Var: -1:DrSScrtCnt
Pheonix on 8/7/2013 at 04:09
Quote Posted by kdau
Try adding the following via DML to any trap object without its own Script property that's guaranteed to be triggered during the mission (preferably one triggered by Sim or an initially-on lever):
* Scripts: TrapSetQVar
* Trap\Quest Var: -1:DrSScrtCnt
OK, that just went beyond my current ability
I'll have to dig into that a bit.... From what I'm reading, I'm not sure I can do that via dml, but I'll see what I can come up with. If I can't do it by dml, then I might just be able to add a trap to a start object or location that would trigger the moment the mission starts. That would require actually editing the mission file though, and I prefer not to do that.... Hopefully I can use dml to do it.
