No, not another "will there be thief4" thread, but... - by Flux
CD Set on 7/4/2008 at 19:34
Quote Posted by jtr7
Could you be more specific about these complaints? Which ones?:)
Most complaints are about the past mistakes, and dread they will reappear in the future games. Or are you speaking to a couple of comments here and there? Or is "complaint" the wrong word?
Come to think of it, quite a few of what I would really consider complaints are against posts and posters in this thread.
Anyway, I still think it's odd that if it's
Thief that Eidos-Montreal is looking to make, that Eidos considers
Thief successful enough. A cult following is not often considered success.
Well, I was referring more to people dreading the past mistakes reappearing, in that case. It seems like many here tend to think that a sequel instantly means failure, which is a very negative way to see it in my opinion. Of course, they might screw everything up but who knows, the game could be a worthy installment in the Thief series too. Also, a fourth Thief game won't destroy anything that the old games have. You can still play TDP and TMA + fan missions and pretend that Thief 4 doesn't even exist if you don't like it.
Oh, and at the Zwitter lyrics: ... no they do not have anything to do with Thief. Let's put it like this: if they hadn't been in German, they would probably have been deleted from the forum by now.
Gambit on 7/4/2008 at 19:42
The weight a community gives to a new project is proportional to the weight they give back to us.
If they make an user-friendly (but still deep for the experts) editor, a nice webpage for support, tutorials, fm hosting, a good marketing campaign to attract new players (and new doesn´t mean young and stupid) then I can be sure a lot of people will move to the new Thief.
thiefinthedark on 7/4/2008 at 19:42
Well, it may seem like Thief isn't a AAA title based on sales-figures alone, but lets look at the other side of the coin here.
If i were Eidos i would be going:
"Rather than take a risk on a new series which may or may not sell, or a series that has proven in the past, lets take a look through our catalogue of past titles."
"Ooooo, lookey here! This series has an established player base that has been dedicated to the series for over ten years now! Jimminy! They're also the most prolific fan base in the world in terms of extensions released to a game series O_O"
"Hm, seems this series is also quite famous and cited as being iconic..."
"Well, this means we can guarantee that X # of people would buy this game, so lets use an outdated and already built engine (assuming they use TR's like they did for DE3) so that even if only they buy it, we recoup the costs! Genius"
At least, in a sane world thats what the Execs should be thinking, hence why it would be a AAA series in someones mind.
New Horizon on 7/4/2008 at 19:43
Quote Posted by Biohazard
But in all fairness, you are a bit biased. :p
Bias has little to do with it. I would feel the same if I weren't a member of Dark Mod. In any case, I'm not talking about simply getting a level editor. They can tailor it all they want, but in the end the community is still getting a closed source toolset that will run into the same limitations over time as all the others.
I'm talking about a fully open sourced engine....such as the community will receive from OpenDarkEngine and our own Dark Mod when the D3 engine goes open source in a few more years.
The chances of the community getting that type of support 'officially' are next to zero. That's almost certainly a fact and has nothing to do with my project affiliations. :)
Why should the community follow..when it most surely has the resources to lead?
jtr7 on 7/4/2008 at 19:47
Quote:
Oh, and at the Zwitter lyrics: ... no they do not have anything to do with Thief. Let's put it like this: if they hadn't been in German, they would probably have been deleted from the forum by now.
Not if it was CommChat.:p
Quote:
Well, I was referring more to people dreading the past mistakes reappearing, in that case. It seems like many here tend to think that a sequel instantly means failure, which is a very negative way to see it in my opinion. Of course, they might screw everything up but who knows, the game could be a worthy installment in the Thief series too. Also, a fourth Thief game won't destroy anything that the old games have.
Sequels often let audiences down. That's a fact. Sequelitis is a known phenomenon. It's not a very negative outlook, it's an acknowledgement of facts. In fact, I'm coming to realise that the opinion of pessimists by optimists is usually more negative than what the pessimists are saying.:cheeky: If a car is known to be a lemon, be optimistic about purchasing it and giving it a chance won't decrease the odds of it being a lemon. Acknowledging the fact that it's a lemon will help the owner take better care, and it may work better for it. Complaining is an attempt to prevent more mistakes before they are repeated. Ignoring the problems with a smile doesn't help squat as far as the creation of the game is concerned.
Quote:
You can still play TDP and TMA + fan missions and pretend that Thief 4 doesn't even exist if you don't like it.
A cliché, which has truth, but is quite negative, and will not help sales or encourage a better game--rather, it encourages the mediocre.
NH:
Quote:
Why should the community follow..when it most surely has the resources to lead?
Because the whole community cannot participate in the leading. Too many of us are committed to other things that have a deep and personal meaning, and fit our personalities better. If you can't answer the question of how we as individuals of varied skills, many of which fall outside gaming, games, computers, and the required creative thinking, than how can we do more than we have? I agree that this community has a number of people who are damned good at this kind of thing. How do the rest of us fit in?
New Horizon on 7/4/2008 at 20:16
Quote Posted by jtr7
Because the whole community cannot participate in the leading.
That's only true if you take what I said in it's most literal form. :) I didn't mean 'leading the community' as in...everyone get your boots on and create something...I mean that the community can lead itself by better supporting all those involved. Everyone has a place...everyone can fit. There are users and there are creators. Those who are capable of creating would create, and those who are capable of using...continue to use.
We're stuck in world where commercialism has convinced us that we can only get a good product if we pay for it...that professionalism is attached to a pay stub. The only difference between a Thief product put out by Eidos Montreal and what the community could put out itself...is that Eidos Montreal will get paid for their efforts.
We can lead our own industry by creating and
using our own products. Using is also leading, as it shows the corporations that we do not have to suffer through mediocrity. :) I'm a bit of a dreamer when it comes to stuff like that. Anyway...derailment ends here. :)
jtr7 on 7/4/2008 at 20:17
I'm trying to get a refined statement, is all. I didn't believe you meant literally how it sounded, so I'd like to break this down further. I'd like to get past the generality of Community. At least you created two major sub-categories. Heh. Those who can will also need to desire it. I don't think you're going to get too many of the uninterested to buy Doom 3 and download. Some, sure, but not what you may be hoping for.
Most of the community are not FM makers, so I don't see how the rest of us can really help beyond cheerleading, name-dropping, voting, and all kinds of textual ways of praising. The DromEders are the ones to entice. They have to have a reason to quit their Dark Engine FM addiction. It has to come from them. Admitting they have a problem is the first step. How can you convince them their quest for the next fix is worth learning new software and buying a game they don't want to play to begin to do that?
Don't worry, this is just a sidebar to a topic that's not yet exhausted.
I wanna see baby burrick hatchlings! I wanted to be creeped out by hatching Kurshok! Now that Gravid has seen the above world and may have made it back (though it didn't look like it), I'd like to see Emil's Kurshok design implemented with a Kurshok renaissance.
DUMBASS on 7/4/2008 at 20:25
Seriously, the game needs to be ALOT more like the first two original Thief releases but with UT3 editor quality, I am currently doing level design for a remake of an old game (Tactical Ops (
http://www.tacticalops3.com/)) and our goal is to replicate the gameplay and feel of the original yet bring graphics etc. up to speed.
I think with the new material editor and some superb AI programming/modeling Thief 4 would be awesome, I am of course assuming they are going to use the new Unreal engine.
I used to create FM's with the "Dark" engine and taught myself to use the Unreal engine, If you want to do it, it is possible...
I REALLY don't need any more tricky-wizz-bang-super- laser-heat/moisture-seeking-super-arrow, just bring back the old feel....:p
jtr7 on 7/4/2008 at 20:40
Is there anything like Euphoria for Unreal?
Can we get the Rat Pro Arrow?
