No, not another "will there be thief4" thread, but...

Dante on 10/5/2009 at 18:01

Quote Posted by FriendlyStranger

Payne is definitely part of the self-justice genre like seen on the movies/games The Punisher, Walking Tall , Collateral Damage etc. The american dad guy whose wife/child gets abducted, killed, taken hostage and who alone mashes whole cartels, mafia families, terrorist organisations. You say thats no stereotype? 1 vs 1000 = VICTORY - I call that a stereotype.

I'm talking strictly about video games. Crossing genres does not help your case at all. We've seen the cold-blooded antihero countless times in film and literature: James Bond (Ian Fleming), Anasûrimbor Kellhus (R. Scott Bakker), John Rain (Barry Eisler), Gabriel Allon (Daniel Silva), Roger Chillingworth (Nathaniel Hawthorne); the list goes on and on.

As for the victory-against-all-odds situation, I'd rather have too many of them than have none of them at all. That would make for a damn anticlimactic game ... which brings me to the point that the victory-against-all-odds instance is dictated by gameplay, not by characterization.

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And between becoming angry and getting an arsenal of nades, uzis, auto shotties and mowing down an army is the slight difference we call "reality".

This has nothing to do with whether or not Max Payne is cold-blooded. This is not characterization. It's action. There's a stark difference between the two.

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(the flashbacks ... never seen that before...)

Plot device. You're cracking down on a shitload of books and movies here. Again, this has nothing to do with Payne's character.

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There is really nothing innovative in means of characters and story in Max Payne. But hey, prove otherwise if you feel the need.

I'm not saying there is. I'm saying that he's not any more a carbon copy than Agent 47.

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As mentioned 47 isn't sadistic necessarily -

Dead issue.

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you can decide if you kill the non-taget npcs or if you don't. You can be a sadistic Garrett too if you want by the way - the guards at Baffords house always liked to have a pool party while unconcious - but these ppl just didn't realize they couldn't breathe underwater. ^^

It's pretty clear that Garrett does not condone killing, except, it could be argued, in the promotional trailers. I believe some months ago there was a thread in which a number of players contested that promotional trailers are not canon.

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and standard, that every monkey with a keyboard and pc-access could have thought it up.

I challenge you to write a script for a bestselling game, or else publish a novel or film script. Good day, sir.

Blue Sky on 10/5/2009 at 18:29

So at what time does anyone think the announcement is going to be made?

Will I wake up tomorrow and discover that it's all kicked off, or will I have to wait until Canada and America have woken up and had some breakfast?

Neb on 10/5/2009 at 18:31

Quote Posted by Blue Sky

I reckon it'll probably be announced well into the afternoon for people in the UK and similar time-zones.

ras2a on 10/5/2009 at 18:37

Getting very excited now... like a bloody cat on hot bricks!!! :cheeky:

Digital Nightfall on 10/5/2009 at 18:40

I imagine press releases will go out long before they actually update the studio's site... so constantly refreshing Eidos Monty may not be the best way to stay on top of the announcement. Constantly refreshing this thread on the other hand may cause high blood pressure, but it may also be the fastest way to get the news, assuming that there's others who will be constantly refreshing every gaming news site out there, in addition to the Eidos Monty site, and in addition to this thread. I am sure there will be plenty of those people here. :)

nickie on 10/5/2009 at 18:49

I'm entirely sure that everyone else will keep me informed - so I'm not staying up all night (really).

And on another note, has (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107696) this post changed its content at all recently? I could have sworn, notwithstanding lousy memory, that once upon a time it just said 'No'.

Neb on 10/5/2009 at 19:03

Most users ever online was 1683, 11th May 2009 at 16:25.

Wait for it...

FriendlyStranger on 10/5/2009 at 19:12

Quote Posted by Dante

And stereotypes exist regardless of media/genre. Duke Nukem is a stereotype too - the muscled uber-guy, gun blazing - like Rambo... The same goes for the Avenger-lost my family-guys. Videogames, movies, books - stereotype stays stereotype no matter in which form it is used. Or do you want to tell me, that if you use a stereotype for the first time on a new medium (Max Payne--> Videogames) it suddenly becomes the "all-new-idea" and is no longer stereotypist?

I don't know these books you mention, but when they are as much fitting into this concept as James Bond is a cold blooded antihero, well you know... thats ridiculous or you have a strange defintion of the term antihero and/or cold-blooded.

Quote Posted by Dante

This has nothing to do with whether or not Max Payne is cold-blooded. This is not characterization. It's action. There's a stark difference between the two.

You asked me if I wouldn't get angry if someone killed my family - well its hardly imaginable I will run rampage and take up a private war against the drug mafia with a bodycount beyond the population of a whole village. Thats what I wanted to say. Getting angry doesn't mean going nuts and becoming a mass murderer - thats the stereotype of angry I tried to line out.

Quote Posted by Dante

Plot device. You're cracking down on a shitload of books and movies here. Again, this has nothing to do with Payne's character.

Glad you don't do that man, glad you don't. (....James Bond (Ian Fleming), Anasûrimbor Kellhus (R. Scott Bakker), John Rain (Barry Eisler), Gabriel Allon (Daniel Silva)...)

Quote Posted by Dante

I'm not saying there is. I'm saying that he's not any more a carbon copy than Agent 47.

47 is miles away from this typical max payne action hero clichee. While at the same time Max is the typical action hero all the way. People only say he is not, but if you look at it he quite fits in perfectly into the scheme. You could hardly survive Hitman when playing like max did. tell me what differs max payne from every other action hero? There's quite nothing. It's the same "thing" like Rambo, Die Hard etc. Whereas 47 does not fit into here, cause he is more or less like Garrett.

Quote Posted by Dante

I challenge you to write a script for a bestselling game, or else publish a novel or film script. Good day, sir.

Yeah, who knows maybe I will do that. But do you really think Max Payne had a deep complex or even sophisticated storyline? Guy's family killed, takes revenge. You don't need a script genius for that. Do you?
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But discussing 47, max Payne is not quite the topic anyway. You brought them in to justify Thief 4 having a love story. I don't quite understand that principle or how it came to that, but ok. For me nothing has been said, that could change my view: Garrett is a character who does not care for others, therfore there is no legit way to open up a romance story.

Digital Nightfall on 10/5/2009 at 19:12

It would be interesting if the T4 announcement could beat the record set by Bioshock's release, in which thousands of braindead nitwits flooded the site after googling "Bioshock cheat codes", never to return again (thank God).

nickie, I don't think that post has ever changed.

jtr7 on 10/5/2009 at 19:13

nickie: That post has always said that, but of the hundred posts asking, certainly someone simply said "No." :D

Digi: Yeah, that's the crap I'm not looking forward to. I may have to go on hiatus again, like last year at this time. ;)

I was going to ask if someone could make a countdown timer, but we can't say when they will make the announcement tomorrow, so it would only be a countdown to 12:01 AM, Mondy, May 11, Montréal time.