Dante on 10/5/2009 at 19:48
Quote Posted by FriendlyStranger
And stereotypes exist regardless of media/genre. Duke Nukem is a stereotype too - the muscled uber-guy, gun blazing - like Rambo... The same goes for the Avenger-lost my family-guys. Videogames, movies, books - stereotype stays stereotype no matter in which form it is used. Or do you want to tell me, that if you use a stereotype for the first time on a new medium (Max Payne--> Videogames) it suddenly becomes the "all-new-idea" and is no longer stereotypist?
I'm trying to explain that if you mush together film, video games, and literature, there will be so many reiterations of the same concept that your head will explode.
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I don't know these books you mention, but when they are as much fitting into this concept as James Bond is a cold blooded antihero, well you know... thats ridiculous or you have a strange defintion of the term antihero and/or cold-blooded.
I don't follow you. James Bond is brutal. Have you actually read bits of Fleming's novels? I'm not talking about the abysmal Brosnan fluff.
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You asked me if I wouldn't get angry if someone killed my family - well its hardly imaginable I will run rampage and take up a private war against the drug mafia with a bodycount beyond the population of a whole village. Thats what I wanted to say. Getting angry doesn't mean going nuts and becoming a mass murderer - thats the stereotype of angry I tried to line out.
Yes, but (a) you don't live in Payne's environment, and (b) there's such a thing as artistic license. Payne stands out as a hero/antihero because he goes out and kicks ass, not because he goes in the corner and sobs like you or I would were our families killed.
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Glad you don't do that man, glad you don't. (....James Bond (Ian Fleming), Anasûrimbor Kellhus (R. Scott Bakker), John Rain (Barry Eisler), Gabriel Allon (Daniel Silva)...)
First of all, those are five characters/authors. Count 'em. Five. Five is not a shitload.
Second of all, I'm not cracking down on them. R. Scott Bakker and Barry Eisler are two of my favorite authors I've ever read. Fortunately they both put a huge twist on the literary trope.
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47 is miles away from this typical max payne action hero clichee.
Oh, really? Enlighten me.
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While at the same time Max is the typical action hero all the way. People only say he is not, but if you look at it he quite fits in perfectly into the scheme. You could hardly survive Hitman when playing like max did. tell me what differs max payne from every other action hero? There's quite nothing. It's the same "thing" like Rambo, Die Hard etc.
I never said Payne wasn't typical. I'm saying Agent 47 is equally unoriginal.
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Whereas 47 does not fit into here, cause he is more or less like Garrett.
he is
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Yeah, who knows maybe I will do that. But do you really think Max Payne had a deep complex or even sophisticated storyline? Guy's family killed, takes revenge. You don't need a script genius for that. Do you?
Complexity does not necessarily equal quality. Does
Treasure Island suck because it's simple? I'm not saying
Max Payne is a glowing storytelling achievement, because it's not, but it packs an emotional punch.
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But discussing 47, max Payne is not quite the topic anyway. You brought them in to justify Thief 4 having a love story. I don't quite understand that principle or how it came to that, but ok.
No I didn't. You brought up Agent 47. I don't care for a love story. You're remembering it wrong; Flashart was the one who mentioned it.
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For me nothing has been said, that could change my view: Garrett is a character who does not care for others
He didn't care for Viktoria? I'm not in the romance camp of that relationship, but he seemed to have affection for her. And he seemed to be pretty fond of Artemus.
