No, not another "will there be thief4" thread, but... - by Flux
Myagi on 10/4/2008 at 17:52
Quote Posted by Gambit
Most of us are afraid that it may repeat some T3 errors
oh don't worry, they won't make the same mistake, of only doing a half-assed attempt at massmarket appeal that is. This time they'll go all the way ;)
Gambit on 10/4/2008 at 18:17
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
I'd be happy with wall running and acrobatics. They could easily be integrated into stealth based play. You might wall run to avoid a guard, you might do some Jackie Chan style jumps to get into the rafters. Why not? If done well it could be great. Heck, I'm all for expanding and extending the gameplay as long as it's done well.
Wall running is fun but people may find it a bit radical.
But surely new moves could increase gameplay and exploration.
Climbing - Introduced in T3. See no reason to take it out. It can work together with rope-arrows. They are not mutually exclusive.
Flagpole Climbing - Same as before but now you can also climb columns, not only walls.
Crawling - Different than crouching, you´re much more slower and vulnerable, you can´t use your bow/BJ/sword/items, but you can hide under beds/furniture and access special places)
Rope swinging - You can gain momentum while hanging on a hope to make a better forward jump.
Rope/Beam walking - Imagine using the rope-arrow to cross gaps between rooftops. Maybe walking it like a trapezist is too much risky, so Garrett would cross horizontal ropes like a hanging Sloth monkey, Sam Fisher style.
Abru on 10/4/2008 at 18:20
Quote:
As for the rest of TDS criticism, they were design based ones. Atomic blue color, readables, glint, HUD, etc.
...and TPP :p
Renault on 10/4/2008 at 18:31
I'm very open to all sorts of new ideas, but you have got to be kidding with the wall running stuff. Garrett is not a ninja. :nono:
And since we're on that topic, I actually think of Garrett as a very non-athletic type. He's a great thief and a sneak, but he's not meant to run around doing back flips and handsprings.
SubJeff on 10/4/2008 at 19:06
I never said Garrett.
And I'm all for options and character development, (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1638935#post1638935) remember? Provided none of that is core to progressing why should it bother you?
The way I see it if there are a ton of options you achieve satisfaction for the purists and the non-purists and at the same time stop the game from being so niche, thus meaning it is more financially viable,
whilst at the same time catering for the niche core fans.
Everyone wins.
The alternative, as far as I see it, is either a dumbed down mass market appeal that just has a hint of Thief in it or a niche game that oh no they aren't going to make because only the active members of TTLG will buy it.
There is nothing wrong with realism when planning. I feel I should point out that TDM is taking this pragmatic approach with many options to tweak gameplay so that the hardcore ironman ghosters are catered for just as much as the Sam-Fisher-went-back-in-time-to fanstasy world wanters. Not as far as I'd like to take but they are being sensible about allowing wider appeal as well as full on dark stealth sneaker appeal.
Damn it Eidos, email me when you need some ideas.
Renault on 10/4/2008 at 19:54
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
The way I see it if there are a ton of options you achieve satisfaction for the purists and the non-purists and at the same time stop the game from being so niche, thus meaning it is more financially viable,
whilst at the same time catering for the niche core fans.
Agreed on this point. I was never really that mad at Ion Storm for putting in the the atomic footprints, arrow trails, and loot glint. They just never gave me the option to take it out, and really, how hard would that be?
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
The alternative, as far as I see it, is either a dumbed down mass market appeal that just has a hint of Thief in it or a niche game that oh no they aren't going to make because only the active members of TTLG will buy it.
There's no way we're going to see the latter, so unfortunately it'll probably be the former.
phide on 10/4/2008 at 20:11
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
I never said Garrett.
I don't particularly understand why, but I feel like a Thief 4 starring Garrett would be doomed to fail. A new character would allow the series to move in new directions (introducing all of the Sam Fisher-esque acrobatic elements, for instance) and help make the series more marketable overall. That's not to say that Garrett couldn't play some sort of role, but I think it's time to let the man retire.
Frankly, what I'd rather see instead of a "Thief 4" is a die hard, true-to-form remake of The Dark Project on id Tech 5 at a budget price point (similar to Tomb Raider: Anniversary). In an all-dreams-do-come-true fantasy world, the package would include a modernized update to the original game -- slightly enhanced rendering, sound and so forth -- with the full source and with all assets licensed under a Creative Commons Noncommercial-Attribution-Share Alike license. One DVD Thief: Anniversary, one CD Thief: The Dark Project in a multi-panel Digipack gatefold package for $29. Perhaps also one Blu-ray disc featuring a 24-bit/96kHz 5.1 surround mix of the new Anniversary soundtrack produced and composed by one Eric Brosius and mastered by Bob Ludwig.
Of course, having breakfast in bed with Santa Claus on Mardi Gras is no less than twelve times more likely.
SubJeff on 10/4/2008 at 20:48
Quote Posted by Brethren
There's no way we're going to see the latter, so unfortunately it'll probably be the former.
Wait now what?
You're the one saying "No!" to ninja moves (route A) and yet 2 posts later you're conceding that we should take route B, and that the only REAL possible fork to take on route B is the rubbish one.
So you actually want a dumbed down mass-market appeal game? It's either that or the ninja moves. You can't have it both ways.
Renault on 10/4/2008 at 21:17
Not sure where this got so confusing, but to be clear, I don't want either the ninja moves or the dumbed down console game (these could in all likelihood be the same thing). I just said it's more likely we're going to get the dumbed down console game as opposed to the niche game that only TTLGers will play.
The_Raven on 10/4/2008 at 23:15
I for one wouldn't really welcome wall running, but some additional would be fine. As has been mentioned before, you could have the ability of climb some of the grillwork and pipes that are found all over the city. This would be used in conjunction with the rope arrows. I've never played Thief:DS, so I would be able to comment on how a new game should continue plot wise. I would mind a new character at all, especially since I find the use of Garrett in fan missions slightly off-putting. Hell, I might even be receptive to some RPG elements with a new character. As long as I don't have to do a lot of grinding, like steal that priceless vase in order to get enough money to get stealth training. If RPG elements were approached in a fashion similar to Garrett's lockpicks in the first game, then I'd be more than happy with that.
A short wish list for a fourth game:
* Thievery in a steampunk cityscape.
* Highly atmospheric, and supernatural elements.
* Proper sound propagation is a must.
* Rope arrows, swimmable water, freedom of movement.
* The ability to carefully manipulate the environment to my advantage, i.e. water arrows.
* The ability approach objectives from multiple paths, each having their own pros and cons.
* Maintain a tight mission structure.
* Keep the prerendered cutscene, but also keep them short and sweet; I want to play a game, not a movie.
* Exploration should be kept as a main gameplay element; give me a rough idea of where to go, but surprise me from time to time.
EDIT: Was I the only one who was increasingly frustrated with all the electric lights in TMA? I'm pretty sure there wasn't a way of turning most of those off, which is why I loved the EMP grenade in T2X.
