No, not another "will there be thief4" thread, but... - by Flux
Renault on 14/4/2008 at 20:36
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Just about all your ideas amount to racing though and that is completely at odds with the Thief ethos.
MP should be Co-Op, 2 people helping each other achieve the same goal. or a CTF type Thief match. The problem is stopping it turning into a deathmatch.
I'm all for co-op, I was just trying to think of alternate ways players could compete against each other. Agreed that speed is not a typical Thief component, but I guess I just thought it was better than killing. At least the stealth aspect would still be present. Maybe there just isn't a way to do Thief multiplayer that isn't co-op.
keido on 14/4/2008 at 20:48
Hello i just registered after years of lurking on ttlg forums and playing Thief - a possibility of a Thief 4 is incredibly exciting! I remain optimistic (for the time being).
Massive levels and areas in Thief would be awesome! They could realize the city in so much detail, better than T DS ever did. The possibilities in a modern engine would surely be up to the task of something like that...
Story is important though; I'm pretty sure that they don't need to get rid of Garrett just yet...how about a storyline set before the original games, or at least T DS, that fleshed out Garrett's character? A story set before the fall of the Keepers could also flesh out the Baron character and maybe involve the government of the City (among other groups) of which Garrett gets in to a mess with or something. It might work - it's a faction that hasn't been dealt with in the Thief universe yet...
A Thief multiplayer would be interesting, but for me at least that wouldn't be the main draw of a new game.
SubJeff on 14/4/2008 at 21:08
Quote Posted by Brethren
Maybe there just isn't a way to do Thief multiplayer that isn't co-op.
Competitive MP - 2 thieves in one building, hired by the same guild and so not allowed to attack each other. They are allowed to alert the guards to the other thief though, and it would have to be HARD so you couldn't run for long or fight the guards easily at all. Being seen would mean you have to hide. People will always exploit though and it probably wouldn't stay as slow paced or tactical as it should.
Goldmoon Dawn on 14/4/2008 at 21:13
Quote Posted by keido
Story is important though; I'm pretty sure that they don't need to get rid of Garrett just yet...how about a storyline set before the original games
:ebil:
New Horizon on 14/4/2008 at 21:27
Quote Posted by keido
Massive levels and areas in Thief would be awesome! They could realize the city in so much detail, better than T DS ever did. The possibilities in a modern engine would surely be up to the task of something like that...
It may very well be all the bell and whistles of modern engine that would actually decrease the size of another Thief game. You have to treat these things realistically. Unless everyone is running a top of the line machine, you can't have huge levels with all the eye candy. The thing would have to be uber optimized...maybe it will be. If it even is a Thief game.
Orobas on 14/4/2008 at 21:32
To me, the saga of Garrett is pretty much over. To drag him out again would mess up a story that ended nicely. Yeah I have issues with the gameplay problems that T3 had, but I don't hate T3 either. I don't know if I want to see a T4 as much as I loved the series and wish to play more. I like the idea of starting with the girl, and show her growing up under Garrett's tutelidge(sp?) and having to compete against other thieves, some of whom joined guilds and others who went freelance like Garrett. Think of the mess hundreds of "out-of-work" keepers made. They have no jobs, no obvious futures, some may have tried to re-build, but others probably took Garrett's route, even idolized him as being the True Keeper. Imagine that a bunch of people who run around thinking, acting, and being like Garrett. Some doing well, others poorly... must be nightmarish for him.:sly:
Zillameth on 14/4/2008 at 21:54
Quote Posted by New Horizon
It may very well be all the bell and whistles of modern engine that would actually decrease the size of another Thief game. You have to treat these things realistically. Unless everyone is running a top of the line machine, you can't have huge levels with all the eye candy. The thing would have to be uber optimized...maybe it will be. If it even is a Thief game.
Technology has gone so crazy with eye candy that it's no longer possible to just load a whole level and keep the graphics at their peak. Memory size is the bottleneck right now, and that's where data streaming comes to aid. It allows for virtually unlimited level size, at least as long as you don't mind parts of level going "offline" when you're not around. Works best with multi-core architectures.
I'm not sure if it's a good idea to rely on streaming for missions, but it seems just perfect for cityscape.
I'm not sure about other engines, but the one I'm working with makes it possible for a level designer to divide a level logically, rather than topologically. In other words, basic geometry and vital parts of the mission, such as AIs and their navigation data, can be stored in one "sublevel", and detail geometry in another. In theory, this allows for a huge mission area, beacuse you can keep logical data in memory at all times, and load chunks of geometry only when they are needed. AIs don't care about aesthetics, after all.
Flux on 14/4/2008 at 22:24
Quote Posted by Zillameth
Technology has gone so crazy with eye candy that it's no longer possible to just load a whole level and keep the graphics at their peak. Memory size is the bottleneck right now, and that's where data streaming comes to aid. It allows for virtually unlimited level size, at least as long as you don't mind parts of level going "offline" when you're not around. Works best with multi-core architectures.
I'm not sure if it's a good idea to rely on streaming for missions, but it seems just perfect for cityscape.
I'm not sure about other engines, but the one I'm working with makes it possible for a level designer to divide a level logically, rather than topologically. In other words, basic geometry and vital parts of the mission, such as AIs and their navigation data, can be stored in one "sublevel", and detail geometry in another. In theory, this allows for a huge mission area, beacuse you can keep logical data in memory at all times, and load chunks of geometry only when they are needed. AIs don't care about aesthetics, after all.
Sounds very interesting. Can you tell which engine is this?
jtr7 on 14/4/2008 at 22:48
Well cool, Zillameth, I was wondering when that would happen.
Now if they could make AI appear to pass through Loading Zones, in the future games that will have LZ's, and especially when the AI are chasing you, that would be a bonus.
Zillameth on 15/4/2008 at 01:28
There is a difference between "this can be done", and "we can do this". There are many things that can be done, but aren't being done because they aren't useful enough nor obvious enough. For instance, data streaming has been around for decades, but nobody ever bothers with it until it becomes necessary for a given project.
Same with loading zones. There are some difficulties; namely, an NPC cannot be simulated in the sublevel you've just left, because that level is no longer in memory. So you need to either keep a part of previous level in memory or approximate. But the trick can be done, because Oblivion does it. Does it mean anyone else is going to use it? Not really.
Flux - it's Unreal Engine 3. Epic used a trick similar to what I've mentioned when they were making Gears of War. All scripts were being kept in separate sublevels, so that they could be loaded and edited independently from level geometry.
