No, not another "will there be thief4" thread, but...

jtr7 on 15/4/2008 at 01:30

Exactly.:angel:

El Carnemago on 15/4/2008 at 04:13

I think Eidos Montreal is going to have to step carefully here. On one hand, if they remove Garrett from the main character, they'll remove a lot of the magic of the series, since he's pretty much got the best voice ever.

On the other hand, if they bring him back in a way that doesn't make much sense or ruins the storyline, they'll lose a lot of their fanbase.

For me, Thief is Garrett, and without the ability to play as the world's greatest thief, the title is hollow. If I can't play as Garrett, they'd better not call it Thief 4.

AerisNoir on 15/4/2008 at 04:43

Quote Posted by El Carnemago

I can agree on that, (fan missions where player is not Garrett sounds odd to me even though I can greatly like them). Though, such a thing would be an entirely personal preference... I don't know how much weight that would have in decisions if you count other design and commercial factors in as well.

Orobas on 15/4/2008 at 12:44

The problem I had with T3, that in my opinion, needs to be solved in T4 is the fact that after the first two or three missions, I saw no need to sneak anyomore. I pretty much ran through the entire game, hacking and slashing my way through, not because I wanted to, but because it felt cheap and senseless to sneak. The only level where this was the exception was The Cradle. In TDP and T2, you had to sneak. Not sneaking meant death. Falling off the roof meant death, heights mattered, not getting caught mattered. In these respects T4 needs to be like T2.

I do agree that Thief is Garrett, and while I would not be entirely opposed to bringing in a new character (the little girl?) the fact is that I'm not sure there is any worthy storyline left. Having a new sect rise from the ashes of Keeper society is possible, but kinda cheesy.

Dussander on 15/4/2008 at 13:52

Quote Posted by El Carnemago

For me, Thief is Garrett, and without the ability to play as the world's greatest thief, the title is hollow. If I can't play as Garrett, they'd better not call it Thief 4.

I wouldn't mind another Garrett game, but I like to keep an open mind. I was happy with the way his story ended, so if they brought someone else in, I'd be happy as long as the story is good. Surely the story should be more important than who's taking part...?

Gambit on 15/4/2008 at 14:04

The story can flesh out a lot of things that the other games only scratched.

The Hand order of mages.
The real influence of the Baron.
The cause of the Cathedral incident.
What really destroyed the Lost City.
The origin of the Keepers.

Or they can bring something new.

AerisNoir on 15/4/2008 at 14:50

Quote Posted by Dussander

This is entirely true.... A thief-game without Garrett being the main character is very possible *if* the story is good. It is do-able, and developers would know this.

... they would also know however that it is difficult to change a game which has such a charismatic and celebrated PC. For Thief, Garrett is a very well-rooted (almost essential) part of it.
For instance, the final fantasy series have players expect a new cast with each episode, so it's easier to swap there. Thief has had three installments with the same main character each time (and one with great voice acting, personality traits and a knack for having trouble seek him out every time while he doesn't want all of it)

I think that developers should concentrate on making a good and solid lead-in for a new character should they plan to do so and continue with the thief universe as we fans know it, answering important questions like 'why did Garrett stop? did he stop at all? how did this replacer which we'll play came to be at this situation?"
A base like that can create a gentle transition from an old PC to a new one, which I recon would be for the fans primarily. We know everything there is to know about Thief, so such a change must be handled with care. New players not familiar with the game wouldn't care about who they play. But Thief has fans, and a lot of em.

Replacing Garrett can be done if the developers wish to do so (who knows they won't!), it's just a vulnerable point in their statistics on how well the game will be received by the crowd. That is all.

keido on 15/4/2008 at 18:30

Another question could be whether the new main character, whoever that may be, would have to be anything like Garrett personality-wise. Garrett's personality was obviously one of the main draws of the original games (of all 3 imo).
The new character could be expected to be similar to Garrett, but then that would feel cheap; there would be no point of a new lead, they might as well just keep Garrett in.
The new character could also therefore be expected to be substantially different to Garrett (obviously not the fact that both are thieves etc) though if this were the case, that original draw of the first games could be lost.

What would a new character have to be like to fit in with the Thief style, but at the same time feel like a different and worthwhile addition to the universe?

Springheel on 15/4/2008 at 18:52

Quote:

Competitive MP - 2 thieves in one building, hired by the same guild and so not allowed to attack each other. They are allowed to alert the guards to the other thief though, and it would have to be HARD so you couldn't run for long or fight the guards easily at all. Being seen would mean you have to hide. People will always exploit though and it probably wouldn't stay as slow paced or tactical as it should.

The problem with any Thief multiplayer is that multiplayer virtually has to include respawning. Otherwise, you might start out playing multiplayer, but your ally makes one mistake and you have to finish the rest of the mission on your own. That's not particularly fun for either side if they're looking for co-op *or* competitive play.

As soon as you add respawning to the game, however, you've lost something. It's not the same as reloading, which you can try to 'edit out' of your memory to retain immersion.

Shadak on 15/4/2008 at 19:00

Hmm, I hadn't thought about the respawing problem like that before, but I see that it would be a real problem. You could have the "caught" thief released from some "jail" point nearby, but that's nearly as retarded as coming back to life again.