No, not another "will there be thief4" thread, but...

Zillameth on 26/4/2008 at 22:25

For every Dark Mod that succeeds (and Dark Mod has not succeeded yet), there are about a hundred similar projects which fail. And Dark Mod is not even a game, it's an engine. I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to take this kind of chances.

There is a lot of bad that could be said about professional game development, including a lot about how unprofessional it can be at times. But going pro means having a 20% chance to succeed. It's not much, but it's at least a fair battle.

242 on 27/4/2008 at 09:11

Quote Posted by Zillameth

Actually, modern mega corporate game development and related huge monetary risks mean 5% chance of success at best (for players who prefer deep, complex, and involved gameplay and good replayability of course), while based on TDM demo it's already clear that it has MUCH better chances than that.

I'm sure Eidos devs will look primarily at TDS as origin and source of inspiration, most of the team most probably have played only through TDS at best and hardly know about what T1/2 were.

I personally have no hope for new Thief. If it was developed by some relatively "independent" small team, like Arcane Studios f.e., there could be a chance. My stake is on TDM.

Zillameth on 27/4/2008 at 09:29

Quote Posted by 242

Actually, modern mega corporate game development and related huge monetary risks mean 5% chance of success at best

You can create any measure of success you like and thus get any percentage you like. The commonly accepted measure of a commercial project's success is whether it breaks even of not (actually, breaking even is not quite enough, because you need to cover losses from unsuccesful projects, too). Statistically, the ratio is about 20%. I didn't read that figure from my tea, you know.

The measure for a hobbyist project is different: a non-commercial project is succesful when it's completed. For example, I consider Thief2x a succesful project, even though I didn't like it all that much.

I'm not talking about artistic success of any kind, because artistic success is immeasurable. In particular, neither generated income, average review score nor number of fans is a good measure of artistic success.

242 on 27/4/2008 at 09:39

Quote Posted by Zillameth

Just tell me, are you doubting in this:

Quote:

I'm sure Eidos devs will look primarily at TDS as origin and source of inspiration

?

PS: Didn't they sell more TDS than T1/Gold/2 ?

van HellSing on 27/4/2008 at 10:28

The Eidos Montreal guys said in respect to Deus Ex 3 that they're looking at the first game for inspiration more than Invisible War, though they're trying to find what worked in both games. From the way it was said, I got the impression that they hated IW as much as most of us did, but they couldn't say it straight because it was an Eidos game and all. So I don't think they'd ignore the first two Thief games either.

New Horizon on 27/4/2008 at 13:44

Quote Posted by Zillameth

For every Dark Mod that succeeds (and Dark Mod has not succeeded yet)

We haven't? That's funny. :) Last time I fired up one of our beta mapper FM's, it struck me that we are quite successful. Our alpha release provided a snapshot of our work, but by the time it was release...it was based on a build several months old. We're even further ahead now. All the systems are essentially in place, they were either disabled for the alpha or they just required tweaking.

Success isn't tied to public releases, success isn't a measure of financial gain. We're successful, because we dared to try. Whether the team sees it through to a 1.0 release or not is irrelevant, there would still be a usable toolset if we gave up today. The source code for both Dark Mod and Dark Radiant would allow the community to complete it. It will succeed, with or without us.

Zillameth on 27/4/2008 at 17:46

Quote Posted by New Horizon

We haven't? That's funny. :) Last time I fired up one of our beta mapper FM's, it struck me that we are quite successful.

Sorry, but no banana. When you release the final version, then you're successful. Until then, you're just showing a good progress.

Zillameth on 27/4/2008 at 17:56

Quote Posted by 242

Just tell me, are you doubting in this:

I'm sure Eidos devs will look primarily at TDS as origin and source of inspiration

I feel this question is beside Goldmoon Dawn's point. Or mine.

And no, I don't doubt that you're sure Eidos is going to look primarily at TDS as the source of inspiration. But yes, I do doubt that Eidos is going to look primarily at TDS as the source of inspiration. More precisely, I'm inconclusive as to wether they are going to look primarily at TDS as the source of inspiration, because more than one development strategy is feasible in this case, and there is not enough data to determine which one they are going to choose. I refuse to make an ungrounded prediction based solely on outdated track record and general prejudice.

phide on 27/4/2008 at 20:56

Quote Posted by Zillameth

Sorry, but no banana. When you release the final version, then you're successful. Until then, you're just showing a good progress.

Oh, if only you had the build that we have ;)

Shadak on 27/4/2008 at 21:30

TDM = futureproof sexy classic thiefyness!
T4 = far away unknown possible crap!

:D