No, not another "will there be thief4" thread, but... - by Flux
Gambit on 28/4/2008 at 19:22
I always though they could make the HUD even more invisible (like in that lovecraftian fps where there´s no hud at all) by making the light gem real and in your wrist. So you could always check the light by seeing the reflections on the gem on your hands.
Or maybe...
No light gem at all... You would have to judge twice before going into a shadow. Imagine the Cradle without a light gem, it´s anxiety and dread by the 10th factor .
Beleg Cúthalion on 28/4/2008 at 19:31
Leaving out the lightgem would require a more distinct visualization of shadows and how they change the appearance of objects. With all the stuff like brighter gamma settings and whatnot the game's graphics would have to be really realistic. I don't know about present video games too much since I have no time and no urgent interest, but I could imagine it to bee quite difficult. I mean, even in reality you cannot always say whether you are visible or not. The fact alone that you are not covered in shadows when stepping on a cast-shadow-area reminds us that Thief used to simplify a lot.
Shadak on 28/4/2008 at 21:20
Having a light gem for the game player solves the problem of not actually being there in real life person, and also the problem of not having super stealth Keeper training.
jtr7 on 28/4/2008 at 22:59
Yep!:)
Goldmoon Dawn on 28/4/2008 at 23:02
Quote Posted by Shadak
LGS made it stylish and cool rather than boring and straightforward like the compass and health shields. Why?
Because the light gem is so central to Thief, a new thing not in any other FPS. Health meter and compass are common to many games, nothing new there, but a light gem for sneakiness set in a steampunk/fantasy world?
I realise that many here know little about the golden age of crpg, late 80s early 90s. A little 1st person rpg called Isles of Terra released in 1991 introduced a light gem that changes colors to represent danger level and various status levels. :) Notice the little gems below each character?
Inline Image:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii116/chrismarkusen/1053170659-00.gifMight and Magic continued to use this version of the light gem for part IV and V, before using a different style for part VI. Interestingly, part VI was released a short half year before The Dark Project.
jtr7 on 28/4/2008 at 23:05
Was it merely a visual tool for the player, or were they given an explanation? Because maybe another game could put a twist on a relic of an idea.
Feel free to post more about these historical facts! What fee will you charge me to take the time to explain what concepts make Thief unique? :p
Goldmoon Dawn on 28/4/2008 at 23:27
Yeah, sure! Notice how two years later, Ultima Underworld borrowed key HUD elements from MM3? It happened a lot and was accepted.
1993
Inline Image:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii116/chrismarkusen/uwpic005.gifTo try and list them all would be fruitless to one, such as myself. Never more so, however; than with The Dark Project will you find such a magnificent realisation of the free moving 3d world we had imagined for years. Face it dudes, Thief is an rpg. :)
Springheel on 28/4/2008 at 23:29
Quote:
It's a light gem, no? It's designed to look like a gemstone -- and gemstones are real, tangible things. The health indicator, for instance, wasn't a "health stone" or anything, and it's plainly obvious LG had no intention to make it seem as if it were any kind of tangible element, only a purely-informative overlay.
Well, I could just as easily argue, "The health indicator wasn't just a simple bar or a numerical HP value...they were shields, and shields are real, tangible things, no?"
Do I think LG wanted the shields to be a tangible element? Of course not. But they wanted something somewhat stylish and medieval. Same with the lightgem.
Quote:
There's no practical reason why he'd have to walk around with such a thing, of course, but if LG didn't want the light gem to seem like a part of the game world rather than solely part of the HUD, they could've just as easily used some sort of "light meter", like a VU/decibel meter or some such, or a signal meter like we see on cell phones with the number of bars corresponding to the amount of light (again, a numeric representation). They didn't.
True, because none of those things are terribly interesting to look at, nor do they suit the flavour of the game. Just because something is not numerical doesn't mean it's meant to be a tangible thing.
TDS added the clockwork gear design to the weapons/inventory HUD--did you think that Garrett had been given some kind of mechanical "gear choosing" device?
jtr7 on 28/4/2008 at 23:30
That's quite a compliment in a single appreciated sentence, GMD! Thank you for that! If you think of anything else similar to that at any other time please share.
Uh, Springheel...although your points are valid, the thread had evolved past them. I already made my admission, and attempted to continue on, and clarify my hypothetical ideas for a hypothetical future game. The only thing about those shields that's meant to be medieval is the shape. The Red Cross, on a white background, associated with Health and Medicine, and a thousand other games using white med-kits with Red Crosses on them, isn't too medieval. But Thief, being full of anachronisms, could provide an excuse. Unless someone wants to argue that they have to do with Templars, or something. :p
As I've said earlier, since the player has the light gem on the screen at all times, it's a constant reminder of real life because there is a HUD, and the immersion isn't as deep as it could be. So since the light gem is ever-present, and taking cues from the two styles and many elements featured in the games, while aware of the future possibility of another game, I'm suggesting an idea.
TDS inventory and weapon gears seem to be the sad result of X-Box influence and younger target demographics. They shouldn't have been implemented. Anyway, the thread had moved beyond this point.
I'm trying to conceive of a way to give the HUD of a future game a place in the virtual world, rather than an obvious divider between game world and gamer.
Chade on 29/4/2008 at 00:01
Quote Posted by jtr7
Hmmm. I can see your point, but I think you're reading too much into it. "Within the artistic style of
Thief", yes. Sleek and streamlined? Crysis? No.
I'm not entirely sure what you were saying here, but I think you misunderstood me. I'm not advocating for the thief HUD to look like Crysis.
(EDIT: This post is a bit late of course, but the last paragraph in this post is still relevant, I think ...)
I'm saying that thief can't copy what Crysis did (and try to make a convincing fiction for the HUD). In Crysis it seems perfectly natural for this sleek and streamlined HUD to be the actual technology display on your helmet. It won't work in thief, because you'd need to add too many gears/widgets to make it look like a mechanical eye-ball.
I think any attempt to make a convincing explanation for the thief HUD is just going to draw attention to the HUD and reduce immersion. Clink Hocking has a saying which I think is relevant (with a bit of a stretch!) to this debate: "don't simulate around the edges of your game". The point being, I think, that you make sure that the interesting bits of the game keep the player involved in the core game experience, they don't lead the player out of it.
