No, not another "will there be thief4" thread, but... - by Flux
lithe on 15/5/2008 at 06:21
If there is going to be another Thief, I'd like to see it retcon Thief: DS and take its place as Thief 3.
I don't know, having just beat the game last week (I've owned it for a long time, but didn't have hardware that could run it right until recently) I actually thought the game was passably adequate in terms of gameplay, but in terms of story it sucked a lot of the mystery and grandeur out of the setting.
I'm fine with the general concept of the story and its ultimate resolution: at the end of Thief II, I fully expected the third game to deal with the Keepers in some way, seeing as the Pagans and Hammerites/Mechanists had respectively been the focus of the first and second games. But it's the actual means of executing that concept and achieving that resolution which felt off to me.
I felt they went way too far with the whole "WHY HELLO THERE, WELCOME TO THE KEEPER LIBRARY, COME ON IN" approach, and depicted the Keepers in a bumbling sort of incompetent manner which I didn't feel was in line with the previous games. Plus the way that the Keepers were reduced from a Powerful and Subtly Manipulative Secret Society Whose Faces You Never See to just a bunch of guys in robes babbling on about "Glyphs this" and "Glyphs that" and "Hey, guys, Glyphs."
The same can be said for the Pagans (who went from "Mysterious Otherworldly Cabal" to "Dirty Guys in the Public Park") and to a lesser extent the Hammerites ("I shall smite thee, knave!" to "Howdy, Garrett, come stop by the Fort some time!").
I like the broad concept of a traitorous force within the Keepers, and even the idea behind the villain, but I feel like Garrett should see it more from the position of an outsider and that the presentation of the villain needs to happen a bit more slowly -- perhaps with the "trigger event" of the main plot being an unexpected encounter with the "Old Gray Lady" during the fourth mission (or thereabouts), and it's not until one of the last few missions (perhaps the final mission) that you actually delve into the secrets of the Keeper Compound.
Likewise, I thought the concept behind the ending was good -- that the writings are all gone, the future now a blank and open slate, no longer constrained by prophecies and signs, a good end to the series (in fact, the main reason I feel the game needs to be retconned is because of how well the ending seemed to close the series -- if only the events leading up to the ending had been up to that standard!). But again, the execution was a little wacky, and the Giant Magical Deus Ex Machina Device built into the City which actually triggers the end events felt a bit too "Final Fantasy" for my tastes, and would best be erased from the plot and replaced with something a little less over-the-top and a little more Thiefy.
So yeah, I just beat the game for the first time and it got me thinking about "the next game," so I had to get that lengthy rant off my chest: if there's another Thief, keep the outline of Thief 3, but rework it a bit to fit more nicely and consistently with the rest of the series. (I mean, it's not like Deadly Shadows box actually says "Thief 3" anyway, right?)
Flux on 15/5/2008 at 09:28
Totally agree with you lithe, especially about the keepers. And your remarks about Pagans in tds made me laugh, unfortunately it is true.
Gambit on 15/5/2008 at 11:27
A new team with a new engine and a new Thief game will surely want to create a new story instead of coming back to TDS. A "Thief 3" retcon seems very unlikely and I´m sure everyone would just prefer a new story, either with "keeper leader" Garrett or the grow up girl.
SPPF on 15/5/2008 at 14:16
Hi, I'm new here, but I've played all 3 of the Thief games as well as the excellent Fan based T2X. Every so often, I'll do a google search on Thief 4 only to find a few posts here and there that are 2 to 3 years old.
Monday (05/12/08) I did it again only to find numerous hits on the "Rumor" from early April 08. Judging by the fact that this thread already has 26 pages of entries since then, I think it's safe to say that I'm not alone in saying WOO HOO!
So here are my 2 cents:
* As much as I would love to hear Stephan Russell's smooth, sardonic voice just 1 more time, I'm not sure if it will work anymore. He became a Keeper, in fact, I guess he was THE Keeper at the end of Deadly Shadows. I guess I'm willing to let go and allow the game designers the freedom to create a new world for us to play in. As long as it's a true first person SNEAKER and not a first person shooter, I'll be happy to give them the benefit of the doubt. Hey, maybe they'll come up with something even better?
* I've seen this in earlier post, If Eidos is just starting production, then it probably will be a good 2 or 3 years before any of us can start ghosting again. I remember reading how the now defunct ION storm had picked up the Thief franchise to develop Thief 3. It then took another 3 years for the actual release.
So, it may be that no one can ever really recapture the original Thief feeling, but I sure as hell hope so!
signed: SPPF
Hewer on 15/5/2008 at 15:08
Quote Posted by SPPF
So, it may be that no one can ever really recapture the original Thief feeling, but I sure as hell hope so! SPPF
Ha, ha- sorry, it just caught me as funny. That reads like you're blowing a raspberry at the end of the sentence. :laff:
Oh, and if you want a recapture of the original Thief feeling- look no further than The Dark Mod.
SPPF on 15/5/2008 at 15:17
Quote Posted by Hewer
Ha, ha- sorry, it just caught me as funny. That reads like you're blowing a raspberry at the end of the sentence. :laff:
Oh, and if you want a recapture of the original Thief feeling- look no further than The Dark Mod.
Ha, how Embarrassing. Anyway, thanks for the advice on Dark Mod.
lithe on 15/5/2008 at 19:32
Quote Posted by Gambit
A new team with a new engine and a new Thief game will surely want to create a new story instead of coming back to TDS. A "Thief 3" retcon seems very unlikely and I´m sure everyone would just prefer a new story,
either with "keeper leader" Garrett or the grow up girl.I guess I'd like to see both (as unreasonably demanding as it sounds) -- a "Thief 3: Renegade Edition" as well as a "Thief 4." I mean you can't have too much Thief, right? :cheeky:
Gambit on 15/5/2008 at 20:55
I understand your frustation with some of the story elements... But as a comic reader who tries to understand DC and Infinite Crisis chronology I can safely assure you that retconning stories only make them more confusing...
Besides if they want to reuse a game I think they probably would spend their energies making a loyal remake of Thief 1 for their new engine (same story but better AI and graphics), just like that Eidos did the Tomb Raider Anniversary.
From a marketing point of view a remake of T1 would sell more than a retcon of T3.
Huckeye on 30/5/2008 at 13:15
Apologies if this has been brought up already, the search results for Thief 4 yields quite a bit to sift through.
It's nothing concrete, but the latest issue of GameInformer states that After Deus Ex 3 is complete the developers have stated that their next big game will start with a 'T' and will be a revival of a very successful franchise.
That's pretty much all it said, but GameInformer felt confident they were speaking of Thief 4.
If you want to flame, send it to GameInformer.
Issue 182 (June 2008) Page 30.
I couldn't find the 'starts with T' comment, but this is on the Eidos Montreal's website:
Quote:
AAA games, with high quality licenses that offer exciting challenges - e.g., the first two games we develop will revive successful franchises
