jtr7 on 5/4/2008 at 13:41

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If it gets all twitch and precision and cannot be played at a leisurely and thoughtful pace as well as fast, I won't enjoy it or get very far. If it adds fancy moves and cannot be played without them, I'm out. Increased maneuverability is very desired, but gymnastics and parkour as necessary tools to solve the game are not. Give us the freedoms we were promised in TDS. Add motion-capture to the improved AI. Give us quadrupeds already! Give us scary enemies that rival our preconceived notions of what the Enforcers were going to be, before we found out they were lame. Do something radical and risky for the good cause of being different and cool, and because it will get stolen by other game companies for being ground-breaking. Don't turn the sneaker into a shooter. Make head-bob a slider-adjusted option. Give us true wide-screen. Don't make it modern day earth as we know it. Don't make the player character a thug or a gangster or a car-jacker. Bring back the sewers 'cause real cities and old Thief had sewers. Give us crime lords, hitmen, petty thieves, a corrupt mayor, street cops, industrial religious fanatics encouraging urban sprawl, religious fanatic farmers fighting for their shrinking land, and a shadowy group of immensely powerful people that influence the people of lesser power in charge.

Zillameth on 5/4/2008 at 13:56

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I agree with jtr7 - Bioshock shouldn't have been marketed as a System Shock legacy. This kind of marketing barely works on newcomers and only makes veterans angry in the end. One thing I know for sure is that even though I did enjoy some aspects of Bioshock, I couldn't help thinking "SS2 was better" all the time.

But there is something else wrong with this game. I undestood this when I noted I didn't mind the respawn. I hated respawn in SS2 because it made me feel unsafe. I was constantly afraid something was sneaking up on me. There was no such feeling in Bioshock. Everything always felt under control, even though the enviroment is partially dynamic (for instance, enemies can destroy player's turrets and place their own), and enemies respawn more often than they did in in SS2.

There are moments when authors try to scare the player on purpose with things like lights suddenly going out or enemies talking to you from hiding. But it always feels like a cheap trick. Bioshock fails to build the mood, and this has nothing to do with vita chambers. There are similar devices in SS2; player needs to turn them on first, but that' s a token challenge, because they are easy to find and never guarded. Actually, I imposed on myself a challenge not to use vita chambers at all (just like I never used those quantum gizmos from SS2), and it didn't help.

I know it's a very vague accusation, but it's a biggie to me: the game has all the ingredients needed to be very good, but it just doesn't feel right. Everything seems stylized, rather than stylish. NPCs behave as if they were on stage in theatre. The main plot device (Atlas' identity) is very transparent, and I'm really tired of the "treacherous mentor" cliche. Vending machines simply play on my nerves (if I never have to hear "welcome to the circus of value, aahhahahaha" again, it will be too soon). I wouldn't call enemies "uninteresting", but I had a hard time telling one from another. I never really determined what their motives were. Are they mindless mutants, insane, mind controlled or maybe they just don't like strangers? Should I treat them like people or monsters? But I didn't have a moral dilemma with this. I just couldn't determine the authors' agenda.

The mechanic seems good enough. Yes, the AI is poor. Sometimes it looks like these are just UT3 bots with different 3D models. But I enjoyed Big Daddies a lot, especially hiding from Rosies and avoiding being trampled by Bouncers. The game convinced me when I discovered the combination of tonics that turned the hero into a Garrett-like sneaker. The wrench was my primary weapon during most of the second half of game. Honestly, the only weapon that I really didn't like was the chemical thrower. I've found uses for all the rest, and it was the first game in many years to feature a shotgun that was worth my attention.

jtr7 on 5/4/2008 at 14:07

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No love for Touch the Dead?:p :joke:

Twist on 5/4/2008 at 15:39

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Well, I'm excited. If for no other reason I'll be curious about the direction they take it. This doesn't mean I'll have my heart set on it fulfilling my own personal ideal Thief sequel. :thumb:

It won't match the original because it can't, and that's okay. I really don't mind replaying the original or the many fantastic fan missions for TG or TMA when I crave that taste of authenticity.

Maybe I'm a bit of an optimist, but I think Briareos H made a couple important points:

1) The development of Deadly Shadows suffered from exceptional technology constraints and developer drama. I'm sure Eidos understands this quite well and will make a real effort to not repeat those problems. Stephane D'Astous' initial comments about the creation of the Eidos Montreal studio and around the announcement of Deus Ex 3 indicated that Eidos really wants to give this new development studio all the resources it needs to get things right.
2) Like Briareos H, I really do believe publishers are experiencing a bit of a backlash from "streamlining" popular franchises. I think this could bode well for the next Thief. I'm not saying it certainly will bode well, I'm just saying it could.

I also seriously doubt they will modernize Thief. This fear derives from some random, out-of-touch executive speaking broadly and vaguely about different Eidos intellectual properties not long before he lost his job. We don't have any reason to believe those comments were anything more than some random man's personal and random ideas on the publisher's future.

Thief's iconic setting is a vital part of its identity and I'm confident the people that matter in its development appreciate it.

SubJeff on 5/4/2008 at 16:04

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I wouldn't mind if it were set in a sort of Gregorian period. That would be modern relative to the past games but still olde world.

And who knows, this could be so awesome we're all stunned.