RavynousHunter on 14/12/2008 at 20:34
However, more times than not, its not unwillingness so much as it is an inability to pay full price; as I stated earlier. Maybe if the publisher found a way to buy back games from players that could then go back into the market as (reduced price) used games. Then, you could buy used, and support the company at the same time.
The_Raven on 14/12/2008 at 20:45
While searching for quotes for that (
http://206.135.105.20/forums/showthread.php?p=1800228#post1800228) other thread, I came across some that I felt were appropriate for here.
He had an opinion piece (
http://grumpygamer.com/4791571) here where he wrote about his stance on DRM, a stance that I pretty much agree with.
Quote Posted by Ron Gilbert
Not to throw fuel on this fire, but the issue with used games is how much places like EB are charging for them. This is a gold-mine for these stores and all the money is going to them, not back to the Publishers and/or Developers so they can make more games. If Best Buy and EB were selling these things cheaply, I would not have a problem, but I do have a problem when someone else is make money over and over again on my game and I can't afford to fund the next one.
It's not about being greedy, it's about staying in business.
...
I think games should cost $14.95, like a DVD does. I walk into peoples houses and they have rows and rows of DVD's that they bought, watched a couple of times for a grand total of 4 hours of entertainment and they are happy with their purchase.
$50 for a game is stupid. I believe that if all games cost sub-$19, the industry would make more money. People would buy more games on impulse and they might be more willing to take a chance on something different as well.
Problem is, consumers still equate price with quality, so you don't want to be the first to lower your price or you'll be seen as sub-standard.
VHS tapes used to cost $80 each, but the price slowly came down over the last 20 years.
gunsmoke on 14/12/2008 at 21:19
Quote Posted by fett
Isn't there some type of netflix for console games?
GameFly
Fafhrd on 14/12/2008 at 21:52
Quote Posted by RavynousHunter
However, more times than not, its not
unwillingness so much as it is an
inability to pay full price; as I stated earlier.
That's what sales and price drops are for. And the difference in price between a NEW new game, and a USED new game is FIVE FUCKING DOLLARS. You can't swing that? Seriously?
DaBeast on 14/12/2008 at 21:55
Quote Posted by Aja
How does the publisher benefit from this arrangement? Gamestop certainly does. And I suppose the guy who buys your game after you're finished with it does too.
Pretty simple here: if you want certain kinds of games to continue being made, you have to buy them new. You can rationalize your unwillingness to pay full price all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that
those of us who don't mind spending $60 every few months on something that they want to see MORE of have to support the industry for all the rest of you (at least I don't sell my games, so I guess that helps somewhat).
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA oh wait, you're being serious......
Aerothorn on 14/12/2008 at 22:34
Quote Posted by Aja
How does the publisher benefit from this arrangement?
I thought I explained this. They are getting money from me that they otherwise would not get. This is what seperates used game sales from pirating (you seem to be grouping them together). In one scenario, a single copy of the game is uploaded to the internet, and millions of people can download it. In the other, a single copy of a game can only pass on to one individual at a time - at some point, money had to go into the publisher's pocket.
Quote Posted by Aja
Pretty simple here: if you want certain kinds of games to continue being made, you have to buy them new. You can rationalize your unwillingness to pay full price all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that those of us who don't mind spending $60 every few months on something that they want to see MORE of have to support the industry for all the rest of you (at least I don't sell my games, so I guess that helps somewhat).
First off, you're making an absolute statement without any data to back it up. You say that if I don't buy games new, they will stop being made. I see no evidence of this. Please support your point. How do you know that used games hurt the sales of games? Again, let's say me and a friend both buy two different games at full price. At the end of the day, we swap games. It's true that the publisher does not directly receive money from this swap; but when we bought the games, we knew we could do this. If we couldn't, we may not have bought the game at all.
Also, given that the unique nature of electronic media (i.e. it is a license, not a physical object) is not an intrinsic part of your argument, you can apply this anything. If you want good spatulas to continue to be made, you have to buy them new; if you buy used spatulas you are letting the spatula industry collapse. Or something. You can do this with books, too. A publisher does not receive money from the sale of a used book. Do you consider all used sales of items to be unethical? If not, what is unique about video games that makes them unethical?
Finally, Aja, getting on a moral high horse and telling people that they're destroying the game industry is not likely to persuade people to join your cause. If you think I'm somehow the height of consumer immorality, you haven't been to a college campus; I'm the only person I know at my college who doesn't pirate things.
As far as the Gamestop goes: Yeah, it's lame that they buy your game for $15 and sell it for $45. But no one is making me sell them my game for that cheap, and I choose not to do so. Gamestop is going attempting to maximize its profits in accordance to basic capitalistic principles. Saying "Hey Gamestop, that ain't cool" isn't going to do jack shit. For those who think that this is unethical: what system can be created to dissuade Gamestop from selling used games for as much as they can?
The_Raven on 14/12/2008 at 22:59
Communism?
Fafhrd on 14/12/2008 at 23:22
Quote Posted by Aerothorn
How do you know that used games hurt the sales of games?
Because every sale of a used game is literally a lost sale. There is an argument about piracy that not every pirated copy is necessarily a lost sale, because that person may not have paid for the game at any price. When a person buys a used game they are saying 'I am willing to pay money for this product, just not quite as much as you are currently asking' so instead of 45 dollars, or 20 dollars or 10 dollars going into the publisher's and developer's pockets after a price drop, 45 dollars goes into the game resaler's pockets, and no money ever goes into publisher's pockets. Yes, there is the money from the initial sale, but that doesn't make up for the money lost through the secondary, tertiary, or more sale of the used game.
And since used sales can't be tracked by the publisher, they have no way of knowing if a game is actually selling significantly better on the secondary market due to it's lower price point, so they can't gauge whether a five dollar price drop will see a sudden uptick in sales (and even if they could, the price drop would see an equivalent reduction in the used price, and people would again go for the lower priced option), so better to just halt production on that title, and kill any further investment into that potential franchise, because their books show continued production is a waste of money, and a sequel wouldn't likely fare any better.
Quote:
what system can be created to dissuade Gamestop from selling used games for as much as they can?
How about one where the functionality of the game sold on the secondary market is compromised? Oh, wait...
Aerothorn on 14/12/2008 at 23:26
Technically correct, but I meant a system that might actually be implemented in the United States in the near future.
If you make an Obama/Communism joke now, you get no credit for it.
BlackCapedManX on 15/12/2008 at 02:06
For the record, my Steam analogy is applicable to the sense that it exists as a system whereby you simply can't sell a game you own or buy one used. You can't buy HL2 used (afaik) so in the distant future, if all game distributors are using this model, stores like Gamestop will cease to exist and purchasing used games will become technically impossible (because there'd be no physical product.) Some people may not necessarily be happy about it, but I can definitely envision it happening. If that happens there wouldn't need to be any legislation or whatever, because all purchases would be handled directly by the production company.
