Sulphur on 24/4/2019 at 20:42
True enough. I wouldn't watch Bram Stoker's Dracula on the couch with my kids if I had any, but that didn't prevent me from watching it from behind the couch when my parents thought their young whippersnapper was in bed.
fortunately or unfortunately there wasn't much about the movie that was worth the effort
PigLick on 25/4/2019 at 01:10
Sulph, its not that I would play it whilst my kids are watching, its that my viewpoint has changed regarding the game since when I first played it. Its such a male power fantasy. I still think its one of the best rpgs ever made though. We play tabletop rpgs, World of Darkness being one(Also Apocalypse World et al), so there is no problem with the dark subject matter, its just the way women are represented in the game I have a bit more trouble with these days.
Thirith on 25/4/2019 at 04:43
Quote Posted by Sulphur
True enough. I wouldn't watch Bram Stoker's Dracula on the couch with my kids if I had any, but that didn't prevent me from watching it from
behind the couch when my parents thought their young whippersnapper was in bed.
fortunately or unfortunately there wasn't much about the movie that was worth the effort
You're obviously not a fan of fine ham, I take it.
(I will defend
Bram Stoker's Dracula 'till the vampiric cows come home, but I know that this is at least 99% because of my own nostalgic memories of going to see it with a woman I was very much in love with. Ah, being a teenager in the early '90s.)
scumble on 25/4/2019 at 08:56
I do wonder what impressions young girls get when they play games that have a mass of fanservice that is targeted at male gratification. Or women? Are they cringing past it to get to the game? I tend to have a few “really?” moments playing many games because the soft porn elements turn up in the wrong contexts but VtM is clearly upfront about what it is.
demagogue on 25/4/2019 at 09:33
Kink is an essential part of VBtM's world.
I think I'd put it this way. Take the person wearing skimpy outfit. If they're portrayed as basically a normal person that would never be wearing skimpy armor thinking it was to protect themselves in real life, they shouldn't be wearing it in the game, as they only good reason for it is stoking male power fantasy. But if they're portrayed as the kind of person that, in the real world, would be sewing the skimpy outfit themselves to wear outside not for protection but because they honestly love the kink--it could still be armor if they'd cosplay that--then their portrayal as such in the game would be proper and just.
My kneejerk claim for VBtM is that it was going for the latter (not only okay, but it'd be inauthentic if it didn't have the kink), but sometimes in its enthusiasm it leaked into the former (not really ok). I haven't played it in a while so I'd have to see it again to see how that impression holds up, but that's my memory of it.
My punchline would be, I'd be disappointed if the kink were taken out of the new game as, like I said, I consider it an essential part of the game's character.
It's like showing up to what was advertised as a BDSM costume party and nobody shows up in costume.
But I'd hope it'd be careful to make sure the kink was authentic to the characters and not artificially tacked on in a way that's not very believable, like worthless skimpy RPG armor no one would ever actually wear to protect themselves.
Sulphur on 26/4/2019 at 05:33
Quote Posted by Thirith
You're obviously not a fan of fine ham, I take it.
I enjoyed it later, of course, for the flawed and superficial yet epic folly it was.
@scumble: the RPS article I linked to might shed some light on your musing, as it's written by someone from RPS whose articles were lensed through her perspective on sexuality and gender.
@PigLick: I definitely feel you about female representation, and I'm not discounting that it can be troubling during a playthrough. The thing about VtM:B though is it's cleverer than you're assuming it to be - that male power fantasy could well be a female power fantasy if you chose to play as a woman when you started the game up. The 'power' part is up to you: you also get to renege on the deal with your 'ghoul' and grow a conscience, and deal with the fallout of that. There is depth in its portrayals if you look for it that tends to justify the perspective, even if you don't quite agree with it (dema articulately explains that perspective in the post above). This is far more than you'd get with literally any other game which, in the medium, tends to be far baser about about kitting people out for consumption.
PigLick on 26/4/2019 at 07:50
I agree with you, its more that every female character has perfect porn star boobs.
PigLick on 26/4/2019 at 10:30
way to totally miss the point. I have already mentioned numerous times that I love the game, and I dont recall any nudity in Vampire anyway. Wait till you have daughters who are over the age of 14 and then you might see what I mean. Having just finished a replay of it my character (as always) was a stealth/dialogue build, I prefer to avoid fighting if at all possible. Anyway my initial post was in no way very serious, the first time I played Vampire I actually found it quite titillating(natch), this time less so and a bit more "hmmm".
When you have a child who men are wolf whistling at when she walks down the street it does alter your views somewhat.
-edit Also GoT? really? the nudity in that is totally gratuitous. You understand its a fantasy series, not a documentary right?
Tony_Tarantula on 29/4/2019 at 03:34
Quote Posted by PigLick
-edit Also GoT? really? the nudity in that is totally gratuitous. You understand its a fantasy series, not a documentary right?
Judging from the conversation I'm overhearing at the client site and places I hang out for fun, most people don't actually understand that. They've got an emotional connection to the show that seems to outstrip even some of the important things in their real lives.
Renzatic on 29/4/2019 at 04:03
IS SOMEONE IN HERE TALKING SMACK ABOUT THE G TO THE O TO THE T? I WILL END THEM! :mad:
