Of "Tropes vs. Women in Video Games" - and the internet - by Firefreak
june gloom on 16/7/2012 at 08:46
As tactless and horrible and generally subhuman as Koki is, he's touching on a valid point here. There are a lot of cosplayers who strictly do it for the attention. I'm not saying they all do, but there's definitely a sense of "look at me" in the hot Rei cosplayers making out for the benefit of onlookers.
Also, "there never was a problem" is just... well, Koki doesn't actually believe in women (perhaps he's never seen one) so it makes sense.
DDL on 16/7/2012 at 08:47
I may be going out on a limb here, but koki still has kind of a point: cosplaying (along with an awful lot of things humans do) is a form of display, no?
As in, painting a picture/sculpting/writing a novel/making a Samus costume is usually something you do not just/only because you love doing it, you also want people to see it (and if possibly make money from charging them to see it).
If I make a ludicrously complicated fancy dress costume, I wouldn't just wear it round the house, I'd damn well want people to see it. And evolutionarily speaking it does come down to sex, even if we have muddied the waters tremendously. It's more or less a form of boasting about your fitness as a mate.
Obviously there are going to be people who do these things purely for the love of the craft or whatever, but by definition they're not going to be at conventions so they're outside our sample group anyway.
So: the "attention seeking" aspect is probably pretty close to at least some of the mark. The better question is whether "attention seeking" and "whoring yourself" can be wholly conflated (clearly Kokes feels they can).
And of course, there's the old inherent assumption that "dressing sexy means you're asking for it": ideally anyone should be able to dress any way they want without it impacting on behavioural treatment...but whille dressing like a sex object shouldn't automatically imply you want to be treated like a sex object, it isn't a clear-cut thing, since we do take an awful lot of stuff from visual cues.
Out of curiosity, eldron: which characters WERE most popular? Were they generally tending toward the "sexy lingeree heroine" end or are those just the costumes that always end up in the press?
Eldron on 16/7/2012 at 08:54
Quote Posted by DDL
Out of curiosity, eldron: which characters WERE most popular? Were they generally tending toward the "sexy lingeree heroine" end or are those just the costumes that always end up in the press?
Very mixed,
Mostly going to any anime-convention will get you a clear picture, or browsing through the gallery of any cosplaying-community site will give a very clear picture.
Quote Posted by dethtoll
As tactless and horrible and generally subhuman as Koki is, he's touching on a valid point here. There are a
lot of cosplayers who strictly do it for the attention. I'm not saying they all do, but there's definitely a sense of "look at me" in the hot Rei cosplayers making out for the benefit of onlookers.
It's a human thing wanting attention, but try asking one of them "you enjoy me watching you in that outfit?" and you'll have security on you pretty fast. It's the attention of "wow that costume is great, and I love that character, awesome work" not the "I like your tits" kind of attention.
Quote Posted by Koki
There never was a problem.
Clearly not....
Quote Posted by Koki
Yes, I'm sure they pick the characters to cosplay because of their deep personalities and interesting backstories. I'm also sure that if there was a way to buy cosplay clothes they would all keep on making their own because it's so entertaining. I'm also quite sure that you missed not only my point but your own(from the previous post) as well.
Cosplay is about the costume and look of the character, not very often about the personalities or backstories, there are plenty of costumes out there to buy, but no, not anywhere near the same thing as making the costume yourself.
I'm not sure what to make of your point when it boils down to "hurr durr"
june gloom on 16/7/2012 at 09:56
Quote Posted by dethtoll
I'm not saying they all do
People have different motivations for different things. What a shock.
Koki on 16/7/2012 at 10:00
Quote Posted by DDL
but whille dressing like a sex object
shouldn't automatically imply you want to be treated like a sex object
Why'd you dress up like a sex object then?
"Ironically"?
Vivian on 16/7/2012 at 10:24
Because it's fun? My gf does this kind of stuff all the time, incidentally. It stops being something sexual quite fast, and becomes something more about spectacle (and/or ridiculousness, particularly with the typical male responses). Basically, if you're cool, you talk to women normally, no matter how dressed or undressed/covered in cream and breathing fire they are. If you aren't, you either blatantly ogle them (subtle ogling is pretty much unavoidable if you're straight) or get all judgemental about how whorish they are being. Either way, you are losing.
So yes, women do sometimes dress up like that for themselves. Running around in your pants firing off showers of sparks from an angle grinder while your friends set their legs on fire to 'Epic' by Faith No more, in front of a screaming crowd. I'm pretty sure that's a lot of fun. I mean, yes, it's for attention, in the same way that being in a band is kinda about attention. But it's also a lot about just being awesome.
Eldron on 16/7/2012 at 10:54
Quote Posted by Koki
Why'd you dress up like a sex object then?
"Ironically"?
Objectifying someone sexually is when you remove the part where they are a person.
It's okay to look at a female who has some exposed skin and get turned on by that, it's bad when you forget that they're human and bypass any kind of common sense on how you should treat people.
DDL on 16/7/2012 at 10:54
So, in Kokiland, are people going to fancy dress parties automatically assumed to want to be the thing they're dressed as? That must make halloween pretty harrowing.
"Hilarious serial killer outfit! ...I'm going to run away now and never talk to you again."
Koki on 16/7/2012 at 11:57
Wow.
Anyone else wants to try?
Briareos H on 16/7/2012 at 12:01
So we all agree that the asian way of depicting women in scanty clothing is fine as long as they are "human and treated like people"? I think we're nearing a breakthrough!
