Of "Tropes vs. Women in Video Games" - and the internet

faetal on 13/3/2013 at 16:35

It's not just games. Films which fail (http://bechdeltest.com/) the Bechdel test are legion also.

I think any industry predominantly controlled by men (that would be the vast majority then and yes, this needs to change) is likely to carry the imprint of the male psyche, which if you take everything within a standard deviation*, isn't likely to give women the majority of focus or importance.

That's a big old chunk o' speculation though - I can't back it up.

* - not literally, I just tend to think in Gaussian distribution when taking balance.

Yakoob on 13/3/2013 at 21:31

Quote Posted by Angel Dust

Indeed. I'd really like to know which videos Yakoob thinks have covered this ground already cos I'd be interested in watching them.

(http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=games+%2B+gender+stereotype&oq=games+%2B+gender+stereotype&gs_l=youtube.3...4636.7350.0.7916.6.6.0.0.0.0.812.3338.3-1j2j1j2.6.0...0.0...1ac.1.6i5MzvYc1EM)

here's one that actually went out, interviewed people, and is broader: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfQSoKgr2jY) yes lower-quality, but more variety in less time

kind of a "guy" angle on it but still runs through the same ideas: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wDpzl0fY4g)

here's basically what Anita says, done in 5 minutes, but for media in general: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYgX-B06fj4)

I could keep going but I think you get the gist. Yes, her video is more "clean" and maybe presentable, but no better (if not worse) than the other examples. The only thing anita got for her is the few historical examples (like star fox) that couldve been covered in just a few minutes.

june gloom on 13/3/2013 at 22:29

Quote Posted by PigLick

suprisingly dethtoll is the most erudite

that's because i'm a journalist, dammit

catbarf on 13/3/2013 at 23:33

Quote Posted by Thirith

Also, I'm a guy and I'm bored with the general lack of quality on how female characters are written. Yes, men don't fare much better in the quality department, but at least they're not relegated to objects as often and to the same extent.

But it's not just about being objectified. You ask most guys if they'd like to be Batman or Superman or Duke Nukem or Master Chief or whoever and the typical answer is somewhere around 'yes'. It's a power fantasy, it's cool, it's fun to step into the shoes of a total badass for a while. But that's not how women see their sexualized counterparts in games.

It's more like if every movie was Twilight, except with the male characters even more useless and mopey. As a male, is that an engaging fantasy? I think for most men the answer is 'no'. It's not a character you can identify with. If you're going to play as a male character, you want that character to be empowered, independent, and competent. You don't want to play as an effeminate, sparkly doofus who exists either as a token male or a foil for much better-written female characters.

Basically, it's not just that female characters are objectified, it's that few are written in a way that appeals to women. They're written to appeal to men, like pretty much everything else.

Thirith on 14/3/2013 at 05:56

Quote Posted by catbarf

I definitely agree. I've seen a number of people in comment threads go on about how men aren't portrayed realistically either and what are women going on about etc. etc., which is a prime example of false equivalency if there ever was one. Is it worth looking at the depiction of men in games and criticise them? Absolutely. Are men given the same objectifying, disempowering treatment as women generally are? Absolutely no.

faetal on 14/3/2013 at 09:11

I'm sure some women are ok with their sexualized counterparts to come extent, hence cosplay. Nothing wrong with being sexy - it's a perfectly good attribute. I think the problem comes when over time, sexualization is the primary dimension given to female characters.

jay pettitt on 14/3/2013 at 09:23

Quote Posted by Thirith

Absolutely no.

Then again, that last vid that Yakoob links to (see 1m in) makes the point that, yup, men are short changed too. And I kind of like that it does. Short changed in that blokes end up with idiotic ideas about what women are and what men should be. Different to be sure. But everybody loses.

Thirith on 14/3/2013 at 11:09

I'll be disappointed if Sarkeesian doesn't make some points about men, how they're presented and that there's a whole bunch of issues with that at some point in her series. I don't expect it to pop up in the first of a series of videos, so while it's a fair observation I don't think it's a fair criticism as yet.

Jason Moyer on 14/3/2013 at 11:19

Considering that she's a feminist without a cause, I'd expect to be disappointed.

jay pettitt on 14/3/2013 at 11:20

I'd be pleased to hear the point that men are short changed by the dumb way that women are presented. Beggar thy neighbour sucks all round.