Renzatic on 24/9/2018 at 19:30
Quote Posted by nickie
Thanks, Renz. I doubt it would matter in your country at the moment whether 100% of 100% of polls disapproved of Kavanaugh or anyone else, s/he'd be elected anyway.
Pretty much. The Republicans are rushing to stock the courts with as many conservative friendly judges as they're able. With an unstable president, and the possibility of losing their majority in congress within a couple of months looming over their heads, they're all but trying to steamroll this through as quickly as possible.
Were they more secure in the situation, they probably would've dumped Kavanaugh by now, and ran with someone slightly more moderate, or at least more palatable. Unfortunately for all of us, they don't have the luxury of being choosy with their choices. It's Kav or bust.
Quote Posted by jkcerda
IIRC it was JUST filed, not filed years ago, but since I am still considered a male (when are you paying for my operation?) I can be wrong, got a source for this years old accusation?
It's in Starker's link above.
jkcerda on 24/9/2018 at 19:39
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Pretty much. The Republicans are rushing to stock the courts with as many conservative friendly judges as they're able. With an unstable president, and the possibility of losing their majority in congress within a couple of months looming over their heads, they're all but trying to steamroll this through as quickly as possible.
Were they more secure in the situation, they probably would've dumped Kavanaugh by now, and ran with someone slightly more moderate, or at least more palatable. Unfortunately for all of us, they don't have the luxury of being choosy with their choices. It's Kav or bust.
It's in Starker's link above.
from that quote
Quote:
l after an anonymous witness came
forward this weekend.women are banding up hoping to capitalize on the momentum .
the only way I see Kav getting nominated NOW is if they grow a set and piss off women voters in the process.
Gray on 24/9/2018 at 19:54
Thanks to the Weinstein case, women now feel more confident in coming forward with the allegations. It's a very difficult thing to do, and the way the culture was in the 80s, no wonder so few people who were sexually assaulted even dared to mention it to someone. Even now, after Weinstein, it is estimated that less than 10% of sexual assaults are even reported, for any number of reasons, usually shame or fear of public opinion. I see no reason to doubt women who do come forward (with the exception of the (
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/liam-allan-met-police-rape-accusation-false-evidence-disclosure-arrest-mistake-detectives-a8184916.html) Liam Allan case). I am far more inclined to believe there is truth in most claims, given how difficult it is to come forward, and every time another person comes forth with more claims towards the same person, the more likely it seems there might be actual truth in it. I would deem it EXTREMELY UNLIKELY that there is a conspiracy made up to discredit a person in the public eye after five people have come forward with very similar stories. The accused, of course, may not even have been aware of what they were doing and hence consider themselves innocent, even though their victims do not.
Having said that, I've not kept up with the Kavanaugh case and missed some of the details. Maybe he's innocent. Maybe he's just a complete bastard.
[Edit]
I have no first hand experience of this, but a couple of decades ago, my then-girlfriend had been abused by a family member, and it was extremely difficult for her to talk about it, it took a long time for her to trust me enough to even admit that it happened. She gave me very little information, all I know it was a few years before we met and who it was, it was too painful for her to talk about, but I saw no reason to doubt her story. Why would she lie?
Vae on 24/9/2018 at 20:30
If the Dems can manage it, the next thing they should do is produce another unsubstantiated claim of sexual misconduct, on either Tuesday or Wednesday. This is because the timing of this event would create an emotional bomb that would achieve optimal effect within the time window that they've constructed...and thus would likely manipulate the Senate Judiciary Committee into delaying the Thursday hearing. If they can't do that, then the next best thing is to bring another surprise claim on Thursday.
Renzatic on 24/9/2018 at 21:15
Damn Vae if you ain't a one trick pony.
Emotional. Emotions. Emotions. Emotional. Emotions. Emotional. Emotions.
You'd think that someone with your alleged vast intelligence would find another angle to argue at some point, especially one that isn't so much of a double edged sword, it can't equally be applied to you.
“I hate it. I meet these people they call them ‘the elite.' These people. I look at them, I say, ‘That's elite?' We got more money, we got more brains, we got better houses, apartments, we got nicer boats, we're smarter than they are, and they say they're elite? We're the elite. You're the elite. We're the elite.
So I said the other day, let's keep calling these people—and let's face it, they've been stone-cold losers, the elite, the elite—so let them keep calling themselves the elite,” he continued. “But we're going to call ourselves—and remember you are indeed, you work harder, but you are indeed smarter than them—let's call ourselves from now on the super-elite. We're the super-elite.”
And I'd say the Democrats aren't angling for a delay now. They're either going to get a dismissal, or make the confirmation a politically poisoned pill the Republicans will have to swallow if they want to get their way.
jkcerda on 24/9/2018 at 21:27
er, Vae is correct there, it's all based on emotions and as you point out the republicans are going to have to deal with it one way or another, confirm Kav and piss off emotionally women............. or scrap Kav and piss off (another emotion) the evangelicals, it's a win/win for dems to a degree.
Renzatic on 24/9/2018 at 21:33
Oh, I'm not denying that emotions are being played. I'm refuting Vae's claims of an exclusively emotional section of the electorate.
Or to be colorful about it, he's screaming that the Democrats stink of shit, while he and his are wading waist deep in the septic tank.
And while we're arguing this particular bit of drama, we've missed out on the whole WILL HE OR WON'T HE ordeal surrounding Rosenstein.
Vae on 24/9/2018 at 21:46
Quote Posted by Renzatic
I'm refuting Vae's claims of an exclusively emotional section of the electorate.
I've never claimed such a thing...I'm only observing the dynamics happening in the Kavanaugh scenario.
Quote:
Or to be colorful about it, he's screaming that the Democrats stink of shit, while he and his are wading waist deep in the septic tank.
I'm not affiliated with any political organization, so you should stop imagining that I am.
Renz, I understand your need to try and pigeon-hole me, as a device to dismiss my arguments and observations...However, I do believe you're capable of being a better person than that.
heywood on 24/9/2018 at 21:49
They could withdraw Kavanaugh today, nominate the next conservative on the list, and still have a reasonable shot at confirmation during a lame duck session if they lose the Senate. That might not be fair to Kav, but it might improve the Republicans' chances of keeping the Senate. The worst situation for the Republicans is if Kavanaugh's nomination is still on the table through the election. It turns the Senate races into a referendum on Kavanaugh.
jkcerda on 24/9/2018 at 22:01
Heywood, doing so would really piss off the evangelicals
(
https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5522739)
Quote:
As for the republicans in the senate, if they fail to stand firm for this well qualified, 6 time investigated, and current sitting federal judge that was selected by both sides of the isle for that confirmation, they won't have to worry about a blue wave the red dawn will be the end of their service.
republicans are in a pickle right now, they are better off pushing the nomination and pissing off women than they are pissing off their own base............. if they piss off women they will have to deal with a blue wave, if they piss off their own base they will deal with a blue wave AND pissed off voter from their own side taking them out.