Stingm on 17/3/2008 at 22:16
Yeah but her death was necessary was it not? When she died her body turned into a large vine that spread all over and helped the rust gas react enough to destroy soulforge. Or did I miss something?
So if she had not done what she did, then all would have been for nothing right?
Sting
jtr7 on 17/3/2008 at 22:23
Necessary for the game plot, not a part of her original plan. She became overwhelmed when she ended up having to defend herself against the bots. NOT getting caught was part of her plan.
"Garrett! I've failed! This is not enough plantlife to sustain the reaction. These mechanical beasts detected me. But there is one more thing I can do. Then it will be up to you... my good thief."
Goldmoon Dawn on 17/3/2008 at 23:44
Yes, jtr is quite right. This last minute change of plans, at least to me, was certainly one of the more touching moments in this particular game and had to be done with no thinking.
The Magpie on 18/3/2008 at 00:21
Shouldn't we move this to the Thief hints&spoilers forum?
Regarding the last quote of Viktoria's there, that reminded me... For how long did she operate as a fence for Raputo? When did she go indie? Why did Raputo tolerate this? Did or didn't Garrett know of her before she commissioned that certain mark off of him?
"I was contacted by a woman named Viktoria..."
Do you think she arrived in town at the same time Constantine did?
--
Larris
jtr7 on 18/3/2008 at 00:31
I lean towards the idea that she arrived ahead of him, spent a lot of time at the Grand Library studying up on The Eye (like Gandalf spent time at the Grand Library studying up on the One Ring of Sauron), became one of Raputo's people, sold information about him to Donal, made connections to find out what she needed to know, Garrett got her attention with his reputation after dealing with Ramirez and the Thieves' Guild, and because she was so much better at speaking like a manfool and using her femininity all along the way, at some earlier point helped negotiate the building contract for the mansion on Constantine's behalf with Col Tamrick & Sons. Being pretty sneaky herself, she went a long time before Bafford caught wind of her name, naturally misspelling it, assuming it was conventional spelling, and the grammar-challenged Dominic only went by Bafford's request.
Concerning the previous questions raised, I'd go so far as to say Garrett was shocked at what Viki did at Soulforge, and what it meant, and what it meant for himself.
More stuff never really discussed:
From the Thieves Guild accounts ledgers M15ledg2 and m15accpay: "236 Info from Viktoria"
SM3paganreport: "The Pagan Situation By Keeper Tallo
The Pagans have begun to infiltrate into more areas, using decaying infrastructure to mask their presence. They now have sanctuaries in almost every district. Dyan, their high priestess, was the successor to the Pagan leadership after the wood nymph Viktoria was desiccated. Dyan's is often seen with a staff, although it has not been available for study. Her commander, Larkspur, is aggressive and dangerous. The two control a large number of Shamans who invoke the powers of plants both to hurt and to heal. I believe the Pagans are able to accelerate plant growth such that it could rapidly culminate in a great imbalance. Recommend further observation."
DOCdyanletter: "Garrett- My visionings show that it bes was you who takered them Jacknall's Paw from us. This crime bes punishable by deadings! But, we bes knowing Viktoria woulds want to finding another way. We offers you this deal: first you doers some things for us, then we lets you live. ... Bes your choice. Dyan, Woodsie Priestesses"
AULdyannote: "Larkspur
I bes havered another visioning of them Abomination. ... Why bes this Abomination in my visionings when it bes them Hammerheads we fightings? I wishering that Viktoria comsey back to leading us. My thoughts bes ungreen and troubling. Dyan"
m15v08e: "Bes my place to stand by Dyan...protecting her...obeying her. It bes was the last wishing of Viktoria before she bes was deaded by the Hammers...."
use_vine: "Produced by Viktoria's magic (and brought to the city via the proper bribes). This arrow can take root on grillwork as well as any surface a normal rope arrow could stick in. Cost: 200."
And the reference to mind-control I mentioned above:
"First, Dyan, Priestess of Wood, givers enchantment, and beset them minds...Then the manfools, thinker they bes acting of them own free will, does whatever we wants...Then, after the magics wear off, the damage bes done, and if there bes a problem...Larkspur seals them deal with more other...persuasions...Yeah, or he bes just kills them."
Yandros on 18/3/2008 at 02:34
Quote Posted by jtr7
m15v08e: "Bes my place to stand by Dyan...protecting her...obeying her. It bes was the last wishing of Viktoria before she bes was deaded by the Hammers...."I find it very interesting that
Larkspur thought Viktoria was killed by the Hammers. How do you think that misinformation got ingrained in Pagan lore between T2 and T3?
jtr7 on 18/3/2008 at 02:39
I can only assume that "Hammers" applies to Mechanists, as well. All lumped together. Garrett must not've bothered to tell what happened. Another sign that the memory of the Mechanists was nearly completely erased from the minds of TDS the populace. Stretching it further would be that she wouldn't have died in Soulforge were it not for the Hammer splinter group.
TheGrimSmile on 22/3/2008 at 11:51
Or perhaps it was just the fact that the Pagans had hated the Hammers so long that they just disregarded that the Mechanists as a seperate group.
Or, what jt just said... sorry XP
jtr7 on 22/3/2008 at 18:53
It's like how many people today blame ALL Christians for what the Roman Catholic portion did during the Crusades, when there were Christian sects that had nothing to do with it.
