Bumbleson on 17/8/2002 at 07:57
Ok, a con from me (although when posting cons I always feel like I'm only picking on a mission, but I don't! OCOD was great!):
I didn't like being forced to get out of the hatch by stacking crates. I was never able to figure that stacking thing out and having to do it in such a narrow place made it even harder. I was more than once detected by both guards, not because they saw me, but because I made so much noise.
Otherwise it was a great mission! Somehow the atmosphrere reminded me a bit of T7C, and it felt much bigger than it really was.
Lobster on 17/8/2002 at 08:03
Hey Bumbleson.
I didn't stack the crates, or even open the hatch for that matter, and I still beat the mission.
I forgot all about that hatch...
It seems that things could of been a lot easier for me :p
Lytha on 17/8/2002 at 08:57
There was no blackjack, and the mission was quite ghostable. That was most of the fun and one of the many parts for why I loved the mission..:)
How to stack crates *silently*:
(a) Method 1:
- first, drop a healing potion&jump. (stacking a healing potion)
- Now drop the crate&jump - the crate will not make ANY sound when it hits the potion. Ideal to stack crates right behind someone in Thief 2 (in Thief 1, they usually did not care about the noise made by stacking the crates)
(b) Method 2:
- crouch.
- drop the crate&jump (ducking-stacking of the crate). Since the crate has only a short way from your hands while you're crouched, it will barely make a noise. I would *not* do this right behind the back of someone, but it cuts down the noise level a <i>lot</i>
Concerning the "the mission should've been easier for the newbies"... I don't think so, really. There is nothing wrong with making a mission that requires the player to be already an expert Thief. If the newbie finds the mission too hard, he might return once he is an expert. More than that, this mission might give him the nudge that is needed to make the newbie put in the efford to learn how to stop being a newbie, but instead an expert. Especially if the mission is such a gem as this one. :) *
* with "newbie" I don't mean to be insulting at all. Newbie = someone who is new or a bit unexperienced at something. I could have used the word "novice" instead, but in the Thief context, this is so much associated with "hammerite novice" that it would cause wrong ideas.
bukary on 17/8/2002 at 10:49
Quote:
Originally posted by Lobster:
So small, yet it took me so long to beat.WOW! You hit the nail on the head! That's what I was aiming for! :thumb:
I wanted to make this mission LONGER that it should be considering area size. I achieved this by forcing player to visit the same places twice, use different routes between the same areas and, of course, by setting high (expert) difficulty (AIs' patrol routes, short pick distances for the doors, slippery outside stairs, glowing spiders, tile floor, no blackjack etc).
Quote:
There was no blackjack!Well, there was a blackjack... in the alpha version of OCOD. :cheeky:
But some of my great beta-testers reported that this mission is too easy with blackjack.
Should I 'publish' new version of OCOD with VERY well hidden blackjack (easter egg)?
Quote:
I spent soooo long trying to sneak by that guard in the attick. Tossing the shovel, then trying to sneak by the bastard's back while avoiding that friggin' glowing spider. Only to pick the chest for a lousy ring, or what ever the hell that goddamn treasure was.Sorry for being such a sadist ("goddamn treasure")! :ebil: In alpha version there was a blackjack in this chest.
And as far as the reason of placing the shovel in the attic is concerned, I can say: I did it in purpose! It is very easy to pick the shovel instead ot the belt key and make a lot of noise, isn't it? And that's what I wanted!
Once again, sorry for ill-treatment, players... :sly:
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I wouldn't of minded a bow with a few arrows either.Yes, you're absolutely right. And I was considering another entrance to the chapel with use of arrows: via the hole in the chapel roof.
Now I think it was a good idea. Am I right?
Quote:
Originally posted by Bumbleson:
I didn't like being forced to get out of the hatch...Yes. You've got the point. And I already heard this from my beta-testers! :)
In alpha version there was no other way out except through the hatch. You couldn't get out by sneaking past the guard in the basement. No way.
But my beta-tester (thanks, Piorze) "ordered" me to create such a possibility.
Now you can get out using hatch or try to beat the guard (both require timing).
Quote:
...by stacking crates.Thanks, Lytha, for stacking methods!
It is also possible (but not easy) to get out of the hatch not stacking any crates! Have you tried that?
Thanks for all the cons! But I need more, more of them...
Quote:
Originally posted by Lytha:
Concerning the "the mission should've been easier for the newbies"... I don't think so, really.
There is nothing wrong with making a mission that requires the player to be already an expert Thief.I agree. I wanted to implement three levels of difficulty (the newbies would have blackjack), but I simply run out of time.
All those difficulty cons remind me of a day when I sent alpha version of OCOD to Ernie (co-author).
He was playing OCOD for the first time and simultaneously we were talking on GG (kind of Polish ICQ).
Every few seconds he was sending me a message: 'O shit!...', 'I got killed!', 'I have to reload!', 'Goddamn spider! It's too bright!', 'They killed me again!', 'I can't get out of this f****** hatch!', 'The edge of the bassin is too high. I can't get out!', 'They heard me again!' and finally 'That's enough! I won't play this. I'll open DromEd and give myself a blackjack!'... :cheeky: And Ernie certainly is expert player.
You can imagine now what changes I had to make before beta version release! And OCOD is still quite difficult FM.
Neverthless, it took me more than a week to get rid of some bugs and make gameplay easier.
And the fact that you can play OCOD is mostly my beta-testers' credit.
In my first post in this thread I forgot to mention one of them:
Silent_Warrior. That's because he beta-tested my mission after sending it to Komag. Sorry, Silent. And thank you! :)
MORE CONS, PLEASE...
Lobster on 17/8/2002 at 11:15
"Should I 'publish' new version of OCOD with VERY well hidden blackjack (easter egg)?"
If you do decide to do this I think it should be more than just very well hidden. It should be impossible to obtain until after every objective is complete (except for leaving of course). I think Lytha was right in saying that ghosting the mission had a lot to do with what made it so great. Since the level is so small with so few guards a blackjack early on would easily ruin it. The blackjack shouldn't be a tool to help you beat the mission, but a reward for after it's already completed.
I mean, those guards went through all that trouble of locking you up and starving you and planning to kill you and what not, a swift crack to the skull is the least you can do to return the favor.
bukary on 17/8/2002 at 12:58
Quote:
Originally posted by Sneaky1Kenobi:
Now I know for sure that I will never publish a fan mission at all. I would be just too embarrassed by my pitiful efforts over the last 2-3 weeks of learning DromEd.If only you could see what I did while going through Komag's tutorial...
I wish I had not deleted this "mission". I could have threat my future kids:
'Come on, Jasiu, if you don't eat this soup, you will have to play my first mission'... :ebil:
I gained my (little) DromEd experience in many ways.
A) I read Komag's tutorial long time ago.
B) I prepared DromEd CD for Thief Fan Compact Discs compilation.
(This project caused one of the most blistering discussions at the forum.
I was almost accused of using somebody's else work to make money. :( And I almost lost my belief in forum members' friendliness. Hopefully, I didn't go away. (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16199&highlight=TFCDs) See this thread.)
While preparing TFCDs I read many, many tutorials and forum threads.
C) I played 99% of all T1, Gold and T2 FMs and demos.
D) I created technical effects demo for "The Master Guild".
E) I created few small demos. (Nothing worth mentioning).
F) I was searching all (also DromEd) forums for any sign of the most mysterious person in Thief World: Lytha. (I tried to play all games her way). And now she's decided to come back!
Then I decided to make an FM.
And it's all because of Komag. It's all his fault.
And one more thing: I would have never (NEVER) started to build my FM, if I had played "Midnight in Murkbell" before. This misssion is SO great ( :eek: ) that it discouraged me from opening DromEd. (I will never be able to do something like that!) Fortunately, I got CD with "Calendra's Legacy" after sending my mission to Komag.
Therefore I understand you, Sneaky. But do not give up!
You will certainly be able to create great FMs! It just takes time.
I think we have all started with poor, ugly, buggy DromEd .mis files.
Perhaps there's one exception: belboz. But this guy is a cyborg! ;)
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Wow! First mission for you Bukary? Gulp...As i said, OCOD is my first serious mission. But I did some (poor) demos before.
Now I'd like to work on full scaled FM "The Cartographer's Note".
But I probably won't be able to convince my wife that it is worth the effort... :tsktsk:
Bumbleson on 18/8/2002 at 00:37
Quote:
MORE CONS, PLEASE...Hey bukary, your mission
won the contest! How many cons do you think there are? :D
No, I never tried getting out of the hatch without stacking. How am I supposed to do that? :confused:
UAW325-FuhQ on 18/8/2002 at 07:17
OMG!!!!!!!!
What a bunch of nonsense. Did you ever create the discs? Why not just make them for Polish people only? Screw the Americans. We have more than enough ways to acquire downloadable material. Is it still expensive to obtain an online account? I pay about $35 US for broadband. I just got an email from a friend of mine that has a much "hit" site and he forks over $60 US just for his site. That probably doesn't include his regular connection. It's still amazing to me how upset people get over copyrighted materials. I think it would be more important to spread the cheer. I always hold my loyalty to the creator not the profiteer.
As for your mission, I enjoyed it. It was fun. Thanks for all your hard work to include it. I hope that I never run across the flame war you were subjected to.
DreamWalker on 18/8/2002 at 13:40
More .... Please .:cool: :thumb:
Had a fabulous time ... except for getting blown to bits ... can't figure how to turn the switch on without loosing any life shields ... and the speed potion didn't help.
One problem: the stats indicate that there are 4 pockets to pick, but I only saw 3 live guards (Vilmour was already camotose). Did one of the ghosts have a pocket to pick or was one guard removed from the mission in the testing stage. Or worse still ... there are actually 4 live guards and I need a new pair of glasses.:cheeky:
bukary on 18/8/2002 at 13:49
Quote:
Originally posted by DreamWalker One problem: the stats indicate that there are 4 pockets to pick, but I only saw 3 live guards (Vilmour was already camotose). Did one of the ghosts have a pocket to pick or was one guard removed from the mission in the testing stage. Or worse still ... there are actually 4 live guards and I need a new pair of glasses.:cheeky: No, there are only 3 pockets.
That's well known DromEd mistake.
DromEd "thinks" that Garrett also has a pocket to pick... :cheeky:
