nbohr1more on 4/1/2011 at 23:50
@camperman:
Not to sound like a curmudgeon but is there a reason why all that work is more attractive than contributing to The Dark Mod whose engine will be GPL'ed in 2011?
:)
camperman on 5/1/2011 at 10:11
Quote Posted by nbohr1more
@camperman:
Not to sound like a curmudgeon but is there a reason why all that work is more attractive than contributing to The Dark Mod whose engine will be GPL'ed in 2011?
:)
You're not a curmudgeon - it's a very valid question. I have a single goal: to preserve TDP and TDP Gold. Not improve, preserve. And not Thief 2 and not System Shock - just Thief and Thief Gold.
I only discovered Thief a couple years ago. It took me ages to get it working and even now I only have it working on an old laptop without an nVidia card. I bought the downloadable version of Thief Gold and there's some kind of stupid installation restriction on the installer and the installer doesn't work properly anyway - it bails with some kind of HTML rendering error. So I had to buy the CD versions of Thief and Thief 2 and even now, I still need to buy the CD version of TG still.
Fuck that. Thief is the finest game of all time. Anyone today should be able to install it from the original disks, drop in an updated executable and play it - on Windows, the Mac or Linux.
The Dark Mod is a stunning piece of work and I wish the authors all the very best. I'll be first in line to play it when I have a machine that can do so.
Albert on 5/1/2011 at 14:39
Good luck finding a time machine to travel back to the point before the first Dark Mod version was released. At least, aim for being able to play it never the less when you get a better gaming PC. :cheeky:
I somewhat understand why the project is now on ice but, you've at least been enlightened by the source, to continue on OPDE, if the source release gets the axe, right?
d'Spair on 5/1/2011 at 19:11
Quote Posted by camperman
Fuck that. Thief is the finest game of all time. Anyone today should be able to install it from the original disks, drop in an updated executable and play it - on Windows, the Mac or Linux.
Yes. Yeeees. YES
nbohr1more on 5/1/2011 at 20:46
Thanks for the details camperman.
I will say that if you are judging TDM performance by "Return to the City" or "No Honor Among Thieves" then some upcoming changes may change your impression of these missions. v1.03 is already lighter on the CPU then the previous releases due to continued optimization so barring those missions it should run on slightly lower spec-ed systems. (Though the new HDR-Lite rendering option steals back some of that performance... but mostly on the GPU side...).
I would say that any open Thief 1 replication is going to be under accusation of taking code from the leaked sources. The safest bet would be to create something Thief-esque like TDM but, of course, that means that FM's will not run natively and you would need to re-script everything in the commercial campaign (if you chose to venture in that danger-zone).
As far as a clandestine OPDE completed with help from the leaked sources?
I conjecture that will show up on the torrents one day if EM doesn't ever officially release the sources...
camperman on 5/1/2011 at 21:58
Quote Posted by nbohr1more
Thanks for the details camperman.
I will say that if you are judging TDM performance by "Return to the City" or "No Honor Among Thieves" then some upcoming changes may change your impression of these missions. v1.03 is already lighter on the CPU then the previous releases due to continued optimization so barring those missions it should run on slightly lower spec-ed systems. (Though the new HDR-Lite rendering option steals back some of that performance... but mostly on the GPU side...).
Cool. Actually I must just get off my butt and renstall XP on another drive of this dev machine here (I develop under Linux and also test on the Mac) and then find D3 in a bargain bin (my box went walkies years ago). Then I can follow TDM regularly for inspiration :)
Quote:
I would say that
any open Thief 1 replication is going to be under accusation of taking code from the leaked sources. The safest bet would be to create something Thief-esque like TDM but, of course, that means that FM's will not run natively and you would need to re-script everything in the commercial campaign (if you chose to venture in that danger-zone).
Yes I am going to venture into that danger zone. The plan - which I've printed out and stuck over my monitor - is The Single Replacement Executable. If you own Thief or Thief Gold, download that single executable and play, on any platform. It will read the map, model, sound, movie and texture data from the original files but the scripting will all be original (it has to be anyway - the game engine will be in Lua). The 3d engine will be Irrlicht (because it's fast, cross platform and elegant), the sound will be Irrklang (ditto) and the map editor will be IrrEdit (ditto). This presents fairly evil technical challenges immediately - do I read the map geometry off disk, re-render it into a BSP or some other format and save it back for later play? Do I create my own map format on the fly instead? Decisions decisions...
There won't be a trace of the original sources anywhere to be seen. I don't live in the US so any lawyers' letters will be answered with utter contempt and full media coverage (I pay the bills by being a tech journo - hehe). And everyone will be able to see this for themselves - it will be open source when it's working. The goal is to have a skeleton game engine in C++ and Lua up and running by the end of 2011 with full interactive console access to every single game element while the game is running - models, animations, Garrett's comments, textures - everything. Then I will release it and the community can help rescript the game - kind of the Linux kernel model.
I won't be doing the game rewrite - everyone else will :cheeky:
Hey wait, this guard doesn't patrol like that in the original - hmmm, open console, ah - his path is wrong, pause the game, turn Garrett invisible, switch on visual paths, fix it and save to disk. Restart at that last key point. That's better! Submit to the project. Done. That's the beauty of Lua - you can change stuff while the game is running. For all my utmost respect for the sheer tenacity of Volca at keeping going for five years on OPDE and the awesomeness of his code, I think he was wrong to do everything in C++. The only way something like this is going to work is if it's crap but it's recognizable and then anyone and everyone can tinker with and fix things _while_ they're testing.
I've agonized over fan mission compatibility and DromED but the answer has to be no. Too much work - for now at least.
Quote:
As far as a clandestine OPDE completed with help from the leaked sources?
I conjecture that will show up on the torrents one day if EM doesn't ever officially release the sources...
Maybe. That would be great! If one shows up and it works on Linux or the Mac, my project will become instantly unnecessary and I'll have no compunctions in stopping work on it and releasing my progress for others to learn from or take further.
I just want to be able to play Thief again properly. I want my kids to be able to play Thief. I want them to have nightmares playing Return to the Cathedral or come running to me and boast that they were able to ghost Cragscleft on Expert mode. Right now they can't really. And that sucks.
Uur on 6/1/2011 at 04:33
this forum is far too cowardly to assist you with a clandestine thief project.
jtr7 on 6/1/2011 at 04:35
what
Goldmoon Dawn on 6/1/2011 at 07:35
Quote Posted by Uur
this forum is far too cowardly to assist you with a clandestine thief project.
Everything happens in its due course of time.
New Horizon on 6/1/2011 at 15:22
Quote Posted by camperman
The goal is to have a skeleton game engine in C++ and Lua up and running by the end of 2011 with full interactive console access to every single game element while the game is running - models, animations, Garrett's comments, textures - everything..
If you accomplish that in a year, I'll eat my boots. Good luck.
In other news, The Dark Mod is in the process of being made playable on Mac OSX. It's almost running....so you can pick Mac, Linux, or Windows as your preferred gaming platform. :)
