The Shroud on 16/11/2009 at 18:21
Quote Posted by Bakerman
I think the issue is that there are better ways to control door opening than movement. For example, like in Penumbra - while you're frobbing the door, pulling the mouse in/out controls how open the door is. Simple, easy. And if you let go of the frob while the door's moving, it might continue with its own momentum, allowing you to push doors open without entering the room.
Okay, that's fair enough and I can see your point here. Controlling the opening/closing of the door with just the mouse seems like a good approach. I suppose if you're standing perpendicular to the door, you'd control the movement by moving the mouse left-to-right? The only thing left then is implementing the arm/hand animation for it. Maybe Garrett's hand simply reaches toward the middle of the screen and then adjusts to grasp the door-handle depending on the player's position?
Bakerman on 16/11/2009 at 21:13
Well, people here don't seem to want body awareness, so there's no need to worry about the animation ;) :P. But if they did go that route, I'd imagine something with IK would be the only viable option (unless, like I think you said, they don't want the match the 3D position of the door handle, just its 2D projection on the camera). I think it's what I'll end up doing.
The Shroud on 16/11/2009 at 22:20
True. It does really depend on whether they provide visible arms in the first place, so I'll leave that aspect of the suggestion to the body-awareness thread.
DJ Riff on 20/11/2009 at 10:32
Quoting myself from the Keyhole Peering discussion.
Quote Posted by DJ Riff
I think it would be much better if Garrett could push/pull the door just slightly and peer into the gap. More the gap, more things he can see, but also more exposes himself. So, door interaction should be following:
1. Open / close — just as in T1-T3 using 'action' key. The door opens/closes as fast as possibe (and as noisy as possible)
2. Pull — grab the door using 'grab' key, then scroll the mouse wheel or move forward / backward or rotate the view. The door rotates at any angle you want.
3. Push — simply walk into the door and it will rotate if there's enough space for that.
So, there won't be any predefined movement, and the player will able to peer into the room without making noise or being seen, but also to quickly open the door if they're being chased.
The 'grab' key would be useful not only with doors, but with other things too — it was always annoying for me that I can only 'throw' and 'drop' things but cannot put them on some surface quietly (TDS was the worst in that).
Beleg Cúthalion on 20/11/2009 at 12:44
What about keeping the "use" mouse button down to pull or push (i.e. left or right movement) the door? This seems far more intuitive to me and doesn't need another key; plus, without moving, you can just leave the door as it is.
The Shroud on 20/11/2009 at 13:08
I believe that's what we previously agreed upon.
Bakerman on 20/11/2009 at 14:32
Quote Posted by DJ Riff
Quoting myself from the Keyhole Peering discussion.
I was about to refer you over here, but I obviously don't need to ;). But I'd also suggest that it'd be unnecessarily complicated to add another keybind for a somewhat similar command. Maybe something time-context based: if you just tap the use key, the door will open/close at normal speed, but if you hold it down for any longer than a tap, you can then manually control the door. Same for other frobbed items, and inventory items.
The Shroud on 20/11/2009 at 20:11
Good idea.
DJ Riff on 21/11/2009 at 21:07
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
What about keeping the "use" mouse button down to pull or push (i.e. left or right movement) the door? This seems far more intuitive to me and doesn't need another key; plus, without moving, you can just leave the door as it is.
Sometimes Left-Right movement is not so intuitive:
(
http://s40.radikal.ru/i087/0911/88/a82207a0b4d6.jpg)
Inline Image:
http://s40.radikal.ru/i087/0911/88/a82207a0b4d6t.jpgSo we need to add forward/backward movement or camera rotating to it. Mouse wheel will work always in the same manner for any door or manhole etc.
And sometimes it is necessary to have a fast one-click open function
(
http://s11.radikal.ru/i184/0911/44/e8dd382bc538.jpg)
Inline Image:
http://s11.radikal.ru/i184/0911/44/e8dd382bc538t.jpgIn T2 you can click on a shutter and immediately click another one while the first one is opening (Garret has two hands anyway).
E.g. if you're running away from a guard you could open a door while running into it without need to stop and move left-right.
Beleg Cúthalion on 22/11/2009 at 00:27
Well, but in T1/2 you didn't have the hold-the-key-down feature I was referring to. I mean, even turning images in something like Photoshop works with only a left and right movement of the mouse; the way I imagine it for doors seems reasonable... even if a little outdated. The problem of two shutters or two clicks to open and close it wouldn't exist since it would work as usual. Only keeping the button pressed down and moving the mouse would add this new slow opening/closing.
