T-Smith on 22/11/2009 at 00:30
Just a small note - I seem to recall the old Rainbow Six games allowed you to slowly open and close doors with the mouse wheel. It seemed to work out pretty well for them. Even something simple as that would seem to be an improvement.
Beleg Cúthalion on 22/11/2009 at 00:36
...but Thief always had at least two sorts of inventory. I wouldn't block the mousewheel for it.
The Shroud on 22/11/2009 at 00:43
I suppose it's really a matter of personal preference. Whether a person uses the mousewheel or not is just a matter of how they customize their key-bindings in the options menu, as usual.
Bakerman on 22/11/2009 at 02:02
And would you ever need to scroll through your inventory at the exact same time as you are actively opening or closing a door? Fair enough that multiple commands shouldn't double up on keybinds but in this case I don't think it matters as much. I just like analogue mouse control better than discrete scroll wheel 'bumps'.
The Shroud on 22/11/2009 at 03:16
Quote Posted by Bakerman
I just like analogue mouse control better than discrete scroll wheel 'bumps'.
Same here. I'd also like it if holding down the creep key while opening or closing a door would slow down the process (i.e. reduce the mouse sensitivity), which could help smooth out the motion and avoid causing the door to creak if you accidentally move the mouse too abruptly.
Wormrat on 22/11/2009 at 06:23
The whole door creaking thing seems a little strange to me. The best way to keep a door from creaking is to lift up on the handle and take some weight off the hinges. Some doors creak more when you move slowly--you get a low, prolonged groan instead of a quick high-pitched squeak. I am in favor of increasing the demand on player skill, but this mechanic strikes me as enforcing tedium, much like the key-tapping required to move completely silently in Thief 1 & 2.
I think it would be tense/exciting for the first few times and then annoying after that. Also, I am curious to hear how the squeakiness of a door would be communicated to the player--are the well-oiled doors always the ornate and expensive-looking ones, for example?
The Shroud on 22/11/2009 at 08:05
Quote Posted by Wormrat
The whole door creaking thing seems a little strange to me. The best way to keep a door from creaking is to lift up on the handle and take some weight off the hinges. Some doors creak
more when you move slowly--you get a low, prolonged groan instead of a quick high-pitched squeak.
You're absolutely right - and the idea would be that Garrett
is actually lifting up on the handle to take the weight off the hinges while moving the door (even though we wouldn't see any visible difference - but we'd hear it). The reason for the door moving slower would be to signify that more effort is being applied to the process (i.e. Garrett is being careful to keep the weight off the hinges as he's opening or closing the door), rather than because the speed itself actually matters.
Quote Posted by Wormrat
I am in favor of increasing the demand on player skill, but this mechanic strikes me as enforcing tedium, much like the key-tapping required to move completely silently in
Thief 1 &
2.
I think this would be far less tedious than the key-tapping in TDP/TMA, but I agree that it shouldn't be over-used. It should only be required part of the time. After all, not every door is going to be within earshot of someone. Furthermore, if a guard, house-servant, or someone else hears a door opening or closing in a relatively active area, they probably shouldn't even react suspiciously in the first place. They might say something like, "Is that you, Kevil?" or perhaps not even comment at all. Only if someone hears a door opening or closing in a completely
inactive area where they know no one should be lurking about, should it concern them.
Quote Posted by Wormrat
I think it would be tense/exciting for the first few times and then annoying after that. Also, I am curious to hear how the squeakiness of a door would be communicated to the player--are the well-oiled doors always the ornate and expensive-looking ones, for example?
That's not a bad idea, sure. Obviously more decrepit areas (like the walled-off section of the Olde Quarter and the abandoned cathedral, for instance) would have squeakier doors, while wealthy mansions and upscale establishments like banks and museums should usually have less squeaky ones. Just as the previous games were relatively conservative with noisy floors in most locations, Thief 4 should be reasonably sparing in its use of noisy doors (at least in areas where the player
needs to open and close them discreetly), so as not to create too much tedium for the player - while at the same time requiring them to avoid getting too sloppy and careless. Like everything else when it comes to gameplay, moderation and balance is important.
irredscrall on 17/12/2009 at 06:11
Yes, we can put a lot of information in this very useful box .
Do you mean that its better to create two different schedules: one for oriented and other for non-oriented doors with doors ID as a selection filter?
No need two have to different schedules. I did this real quick with one of my schedules to try it out. I just put either RH or LH in each doors ID. Of course you can change the ID Header to whatever you want it to say.
The Shroud on 17/12/2009 at 07:33
I most confess, your post baffles me. What?
Syndef on 18/12/2009 at 02:21
Well, the player can press and hold the mouse button to open doors slowly, just as the OP suggested. I'm thinking of this though: If the player lets go of the mouse button, the door will automatically start closing.
Because of this kind of control, tapping the mouse button once will only make the door open a few centimeters and then close again.
To open and close door quickly and all the way (making more noise), double-clicking can be used.
