clearing on 10/12/2008 at 15:59
Interesting thread though ;)
sparhawk on 10/12/2008 at 16:02
Quote Posted by Judith
You see, you're only confirming what I wrote.
The only thing that can be confirmed by what you are writing is that you are consistently anti-TDM and me in particular. I have no real problem with that because I usually ignore you unless you are adressing me directly.
But since there is really no point in answering anything to you I rather keep ignoring you as there are no facts or arguments from you, as usual. Only personal statements.
SneaksieDave on 10/12/2008 at 16:05
@Judith:
For whatever reason I haven't deduced (but do have a guess at; and yes, I've enjoyed, and campaigned for, and worked on two unreleased T3Ed/TDS missions myself), you are ever anti-TDM. That is fine of course, but when you call down members (the 'drama queen' thing is a bit ironic, isn't it?) just because they are responding to slams against their project, it's not terribly fair. Recall that TDM members are TTLG'ers of old (and new) as well as everyone else here, and don't need any reason or special permission beyond that to post.
As for the openthief project (since we should stay on topic): assumptions that 'the tdm guys' are 'vehemently opposed' are unfounded and kooky. I think everyone is (still) all eyes and ears. I for one would love to see how far along the AI are, or some kind of action/reaction system, or soundprop. Frobbing, or perhaps lockpicking or junk manipulation? Or maybe a script engine. How about some art assets, or sound, models or particle effects? Melee combat? Maybe the editor is really cool, and there's a huge community for support. Wiki? Surely there's something we can sample. Because if not, then this whole thread would be a stupid waste of time.
Judith on 10/12/2008 at 16:17
I'm not anti-you, I don't know you, I haven't even met you! But on forums you have this nasty habit of judging people and knowing better who they are or how ignorant they are. While NH has a gift of a silver tongue and gets much too excited by that :) And your tolerance for anything that may exist outside Darkmod is equal to zero, both of you.
I'm not anti-TDM. I'm more or less up-to-date with what you release to the public, and for most of the time I like what I'm seeing. I played St. Lucia and I like what I see. I think it's has some major design flaws when it comes to gameplay, but this isn't the place to elaborate on that. Besides, it's just a demo.
Like I said I'm not defending OpenThief, he got too nervous at some point too, and was a bit rude as well. Just stop playing pretentious assholes and let your work speak for you, that's all.
Sneaksie - this thread is a waste of time :) OpenThief probably won't show here, and we're talking about the same things over and over again :)
New Horizon on 10/12/2008 at 16:45
Quote Posted by Judith
Just stop playing pretentious assholes and let your work speak for you, that's all.
You might consider it yourself.
Judith on 10/12/2008 at 17:05
Quote Posted by New Horizon]I recognize that there are people who would simply like to go off and do something on their own. I see that fact, but I'm simply suggesting that those very same people could still do something on their own by using the foundation of an existing project. They don't have to join the core team and pledge allegiance to the flag. You're not seeing my facts either....and nobody is being a pretentious asshole.
It's irrelevant whether or not I'm a TDM team member or just a TTLG poster. My view that it is far more beneficial to focus energy on a single foundation than it is to divide the community even further, would be the same. I feel that is sensible. My interests are in serving the whole community...and if that means saying things that some people don't like, so be it. I'm not here to be Mr. Popular. I'll say what I think, and when I want to say it. I didn't call openthief a bitch, or an asshole. I simply told him that I didn't think the project made any sense. That would be my view if someone else came around saying, "hey, I'm going to make an engine that does exactly what OPDE does". I would tell them to put aside the quest for glory and help a project that is already making great strides.
While right now we're only focusing on creating a core T1/2 style toolset, there is absolutely nothing stopping another team from taking our finished toolset and making it completely their own...while providing benefits to both themselves, the core toolset, and in turn the community. This can and will be reality very soon.
I hear what you're saying, but for goodness sake...I'm not stating anything unreasonable here, this is common sense, and truly beneficial for community based development. Apparently I'm an idiot for suggesting the community share, and work together. The message I'm getting is that division is the better course of action.
No. More is not always better.
Quote:
And in a few minutes again he starts throwing visions, like a priest of a new god, who is about to force out the Christianity . That's when one excites with his own words a bit too much.
Visions? They're real world facts. It doesn't take a genius to put together what I said. Anyone should be able to look around at what is going on and draw a line connecting a project like Ubuntu linux, which has multiple variations, and TDM. These arrangements exist. I'm not conjuring it up out of thin air like some kind of mentalist. Anyway, just keep shooting me down and hurling the insults Judith. You're absolutely right.
Quote:
The problem with both of you is that you want to your obviously biased point of view to be understood, while you show no tolerance for anything else - and I'm not saying about simple fact of misinformation. Suggestion that "there's no use starting/continuing a project for there's DarkMod" is plain insolent and rude, period. Saying that DarkMod is or will surely be dead is quite rude too :
That's your interpretation, and pretty much always has been. I have nothing but tolerance for differences and diversity...however, my point has only been that diversity can be had without further splintering an already stretched community. Can you not see the benefits of that? I am not trying to sway your opinion. I recognize that view, but I simply disagree on it being the most productive choice.
Quote:
I'm not saying that OpenThief's work is great or something, I'm really neither enemy nor friend here. But just like Beleg, I don't like your tone. And I think that speaking with this tone you're making more harm than a benefit to your project. Putting aside your bloated ego could help, really
There really was no tone. I guess I need to go back and put a bunch of smiley faces in my posts. If I don't, everything is misinterpreted. It's the internet...tone is a loose concept.
No, sorry, "that's your interpretation" is your permanent line of defense and is false. When I'm pointing at a duck and I say "it's a duck", then it is a duck, not an elephant, for God's sake. Stop acting like you'd want to change the basic function of a language or else this thread will go in a really silly direction. When I say "screw you" I'm being impolite, and that's not "just someone's interpretation". It's a language convention, as far as i know.
I understand that it might be better when everyone joins up in a single effort, but I still don't see any problem when someone decides to create his/her own team and do something on his own. I understand why one might want do join Darkmod team, and I can understand why he or she won't do that. Problem is, you can't do the latter and you'll try to talk down such person to death, until you convince everyone around that "that's the only reasonable way". No it isn't :) Try thinking outside your box (Darkmod) sometimes.
sNeaksieGarrett on 10/12/2008 at 17:16
Not that it is really my business, and yes, your right, tone doesn't exactly fit on the internet. I've had a problem before interpreting written word as an offense when it was not meant to be.... Anyway, what i was getting to is that I don't think New Horizon or sparhawk are opposed to a new project, they are just suggesting that it's kind of pointless to start yet another project when we can combine our efforts. I don't think it's "oh you hate darkmod so ill flame you" or "oh look, a project besides darkmod, i must object", it's more so that starting a new project is not particularly necessary or practical. (and in this case it is the issue of openthief not proving to us that he has a project to actually share.) Now, that's not to say that if openthief actually had a great "product to sell" that we would say "you wasted your time" because as you said, diversity is good.:) The main point is, openthief has us all skeptical (or at least NH sparhawk and I) because so far all he's done is say "hey look i've got a website with a project idea, anyone want to take it over?" Again, no backup to his claims. At first I was impressed because he showed us that ogre demo video on youtube, but then i came to realized that anyone could have throw that together, and that's exactly what openthief did.
Springheel on 10/12/2008 at 17:19
Quote:
or else this thread will go in a really silly direction
I think we passed silly a while back.
Judith on 10/12/2008 at 17:26
Agreed, so let's just get back to work, without instructing what is "truly reasonable" and what is not. Happy Dromeding, DarkModding, T3Editing or SomethingElseEditing anyone :)
Quote Posted by Sneaksie
Now, that's not to say that if openthief actually had a great "product to sell" that we would say "you wasted your time" because as you said, diversity is good. The main point is, openthief has us all skeptical (or at least NH sparhawk and I) because so far all he's done is say "hey look i've got a website with a project idea, anyone want to take it over?" Again, no backup to his claims. At first I was impressed because he showed us that ogre demo video on youtube, but then i came to realized that anyone could have throw that together, and that's exactly what openthief did.
Then we got the same impression, yours was no different than mine. That's why I said I'm not defending OpenThief. Most of this discussion is, as you see, a bit offtopic, regarding the way both sides were saying things. And it's hard to not to say that both sides were impolite ;)
New Horizon on 10/12/2008 at 17:41
Quote Posted by Judith
Try thinking outside your box sometimes.
I've only been asking the same of you. I wasn't instructing what was reasonable, I said it was my opinion. I wasn't saying 'join dark mod' I said that the foundation of it could be used by 'a new team' to build their own branch...while still benefiting the main branch and the community. Yet you're still hammering at me for things that I wasn't implying. I've acknowledged that I clearly recognize your view. By your 'interpretation' I'm simply talking about your perception of our intent. Maybe I am a duck, though I see myself more as a horse, but what I was not being was rude...or intolerant of other projects. If we were talking face to face, it would make that much difference because you wouldn't have heard any rudeness in my tone at all, nor arrogance, just a simple statement of opinion....and a hint of curiosity. That is the interpretation of which I speak.
I shared my thoughts, and tried to clearly explain the possibilities of cooperation. Yes, I understand not everyone wants to play together, that's fine. It still needed to be said because there was misunderstandings about my intent in this thread, and even as it closes...there still is.
In any case. All of this was blown WAY out of proportion. So I concur with Spring, we've lapped the finish line of silliness at least a dozen times by now.
