openthief on 4/12/2008 at 19:28
Hello there,
I am sad to see the Thief community is so sensible. It is usually the result of scare. I first recall to anybody that the subject was not to chatter or to make fun of anyone project without respect. Some people should have the politeness to go speaking/laughing in other subjects.
Reply to Brethren :
Your wrong idea about my age let think the contrary : perhaps are you 14. I would wait much more politeness from you. Now, New_Horizon does not think like you, and hope perhaps a 10 years old TDM project, which Volca confirmed it is impossible. Dont you think it would be great to have a secure thief engine independant from any commercial industry and engines ? A 10 years old engine is actullay possible with full open sources. To finish, as I said, I didnt take care of openthief project, that s why there is no team. If it is a reason for you to not think of it, please let us seriously speak.
Reply to jtr7 :
The original Dark Engine is like an old Amstrad CPC : less and less people turn it on. You can love it, but you will leave it one day as majority of guys who bought Thief, some years ago. Now you are totally wrong : the original Dark Engine is NOT stronger and stronger days after days. It is actually hacked to fullfill some new features as Network but it is nearly the same. We cant enhance it as we dont have the source and even with the source, it would be a dead end way.
Now as I said, asking a guy a resume is quite sad, above all when your own resume is not here. Now let me explain there is no translation of a thief game/mod to another engine/mod. Each time people change of engine, they generally lose all their previous works (arts, codes,...). Major parts of the works done in TDM wont be translatable to another engine as they dont use standards like Collada. Sorry, but no, without any new commercial release, Thief like games will not live on if we dont use universal open sources solutions. That s why Dark Mod could be a trap. See U.
Reply to jolynsbass
It seems you have ideas. Have you seriously evaluated Bullet, ODE and PAL to know which is the best for a long term Thief engine ? What have you ever written/created ? Are you sure you know what is open sources ? Are you a coder ?
Reply to Eddy :
you havent read the post. I dont want to cancel. There is no nothing.
Where is your open source full project ? Could you give me the link ?
Reply to muncadunc :
As I said, not sure at all we will be able to make a standalone exec for TDM. And even if you success, you will perhaps need some copyrighted files. The risk is very high. Now I have evaluated TDM because NewHorizon came as soon as I have created this announce to try to crap this project. An openThief project is a risk for him. It was not smart at all from him, not from me. To finish, just even think how humble you should be if you had to speak a total foreign langage. Would you use Google translate to reply to this kind of poor remark about correct bulgar ? So dont hesitate to contact me in correct bulgare.
Reply to Haplo
the openDarkEngine has a total different goal for the moment. openThief should read Collada level format, OPDE original Thief files. It would be better for OPDE to prepare to read Collada file (Ogre could). A good collaboration should be to write a converter between T1/2 level files to .dae. It would be a first step for unlimited life to Thief 1/2 levels. I dont think TDM can read Collada files. Do you know if it can New_horizon ?
Reply to New_Horizon :
Here it is you continue to lie to our community. The Doom3 rendering engine is already less efficient than Ogre. Say the contrary. Have you tried the Ogre shadows demo ? Now your langage is more and more insulting, not mine. It is perfect. Please go on. I have heard of the projects you are speaking of. This is just more long term safe to use independant open source projects like Ogre. To finish, it is obvious that ID release the code which is too old and too difficult to enhance. I have never heard of Criterion releasing RenderWare source code. Actually, you should have never entered inside this post. Your mod was not the subject, you was the first starting to spit out on openThief. Your presence is welcome if you can make effort to admit some of the truth I have recalled and to have constructive words.
Kind regards
Peace on Thief.
jtr7 on 4/12/2008 at 20:00
It's not sad to ask for credentials. I'm not making any claims to be anything other than a fan, but you have called yourself a "professional" and claim to work/have worked for Ubisoft (any other company?), yet have provided nothing but a concept. We have no reason to believe your claims, while I have proven I'm a fan of Thief. My many posts in the Thief forums are my resumé.
My name is Jason T. Reimche. What's yours?
I agree that we need options, but nothing yet matches the Dark Engine's atmosphere. I will happily put the Dark Engine to rest in my treasure chest when an engine exists that can readily capture that aesthetic if the mission creator wants it to.
It is strongly suggested you provide something credible about yourself, or the community's patience will grow thinner and less welcoming. That's simply how it is. For some, it's a lack of discipline, and for others, it's a reasonable unwillingness to invest any time and emotion into chasing an empty promise/dream/notion. We're not obligated to read anybody's posts, or believe the contents thereof, or care.
You may not know this, but most of us posting here are interested in what you have to share, or we wouldn't bother, but our interest is waning fast.
Renault on 4/12/2008 at 20:19
Wow, this might be a first, but I completely agree with the above. Well said, Jason.
jtr7 on 4/12/2008 at 20:26
\o/ Heh heh.
RavynousHunter on 4/12/2008 at 22:15
So his SourceForge page is totally empty? Not even anything in the SVN or CVS? Wooooooow... I couldn't connect to it last night because we had a huge-ass storm, and I just kinda... lost interest. :erg:
At least put something up to show us that you know any language at all, and I'm not talking about "Hello, world!" either. Hell, even *I* have at least one or two examples of my acumen out there; it's not much, but at least it's there. Give some proof of your claims, then we will be more receptive. That's true of any community you come across that's even half as devoted as we are; ie: if you went over to the NoX community and said you were making a similar project to what you have put here, and claimed to be a programmer at Ubi, they, too, would ask for your credentials.
You are new to us, we don't know who you are, give us some kind of information so we might be more inclined to believe you.
New Horizon on 5/12/2008 at 01:21
To be accurate, I wasn't trying to hurl insults in my very first post. All I said was that I didn't think it was necessary to being 'yet another' project when we were on the eve of releasing a finished product.
You keep making reference to D3 being a commercial product. This has not relevance when the source code is released. A commercial application released as open source is no different than one that begins as open source. In the end, they are both updated and maintained by interested community teams.
Quote Posted by openthief
Reply to New_Horizon :
Here it is you continue to lie to our community. The Doom3 rendering engine is already less efficient than Ogre. Say the contrary. Have you tried the Ogre shadows demo ? Now your langage is more and more insulting, not mine. It is perfect. Please go on. I have heard of the projects you are speaking of. This is just more long term safe to use independant open source projects like Ogre. To finish, it is obvious that ID release the code which is too old and too difficult to enhance. I have never heard of Criterion releasing RenderWare source code. Actually, you should have never entered inside this post. Your mod was not the subject, you was the first starting to spit out on openThief. Your presence is welcome if you can make effort to admit some of the truth I have recalled and to have constructive words.
Kind regards
Peace on Thief.
Jarvis on 5/12/2008 at 01:24
This is a ridiculous argument. The base of the argument, regardless of side, is over the intrinsic quality of a video game. What is quality? Where does it lie in this case? Greater minds than our own have tried to tackle this, and I won't repeat their work here.
I will say this, however:
To insinuate that the only quality in a video game that will keep me interested is graphical upgrades and new features? I'm insulted! I don't give a rats toosh how "modern" a game is. Is Thief modern? Of course not! It's old, and created on a very old engine that we don't and probably will never have the source code for.
Does that change the value of the OMs? Does that change the value of FMs such as Calendra's Legacy and The Seven Sisters? Not even a little bit! Thief, and some of its FMs, have given me the most entertaining video game experiences I've ever had...
...and all on a DEAD engine!
Even with out all the texture upgrades and so on, the original Thief games still appear beautiful to me. Because their quality lies between the textures, models, and rendering. To claim that any project is inherently better than another based on things like the presence or lack of source code is ridiculous.
Wonderful, Openthief, if you are capable of making an everlasting Thief related engine. Wonderful, TDM, if you get the D3 source code and keep going.
At the risk of sounding like a self-centered and naive audience:
I don't care! Just entertain us! and yourselves as well, of course.
Put heart into your project, and it will show. All the rest will fall in line. Good luck to all of you, but I'm sure you'd all do much better to get over meaningless squabbles and do what it is you do best. I have deep gratitude for those that do so much for this community.
jtr7 on 5/12/2008 at 01:29
Hear hear!
o7
New Horizon on 5/12/2008 at 02:35
Quote Posted by Jarvis
Put heart into your project, and it will show. All the rest will fall in line. Good luck to all of you, but I'm sure you'd all do much better to get over meaningless squabbles and do what it is you do best.
I'm pretty sure we have done that.
jtr7 on 5/12/2008 at 02:52
Well! That's really good to hear. I was pretty much ignoring said squabbles, while wishing the best for all of you, and as long as the project was moving forward, I hoped it would turn out all right, as well it has thus far! :D
