sNeaksieGarrett on 5/12/2008 at 04:02

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Nicely said, jarvis.:)

Jarvis on 5/12/2008 at 06:26

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...and as such, I look forward to TDM, and I have ever since it was announced.

Judith on 5/12/2008 at 09:30

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I'm sure our somewhat conservative community will appreciate the opportunity to try out as many "thief engines" as you'll manage to create ;) I also appreciate the scope of a problem Openthief is aiming at, as it's indeed a long-term thinking (despite some little misunderstandings and/or language problems).

I also guess that any bugtracking and compatibility issues, so severe in PC world, would be easier to solve when you know your work from scratch. As it goes for Thief 3 and fanmissions, it's a lottery, mostly. My FM works fine on my comp, I can save, load and such, but on a tester's rig it crashes and he cannot load/save properly. On some other tester's PC it runs as fine as on mine. But that's extreme situation, I know almost nothing about the engine I'm working with. D3 is somewhere in the middle, I guess, while Volca will be able to say that he knows everything about his engine :)

Volca on 5/12/2008 at 10:38

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The Dark Mod is the future, openDarkEngine is the past (hopefully) ;)

openThief: If you'd really like to work on your project please do. If you can't, try convincing someone it is a good idea for him to start/continue the project instead of you. If there were 30 000 lines of code in your project's SVN, and you'd then said you quit, the chances would be much better for you to find someone to help you or overtake the project. It is hard to find someone willing to help, and capable of doing so at the same time (by capable, I mean the person has time to work for the project, is willing to learn, is able to coordinate his work with the work of others, is capable of reasoning, isn't bullheaded etc. The same, and more is expected from the project leader).

The reason so many people are sceptical about your openThief project is because you didn't show any work. I was told something similar back then I announced the openDarkEngine project here 3 years ago (but at least there was a small amount of code already present). That does only mean people would like to see will and persistence in your work before they consider it worthy their time. Giving up the leadership position is not a good example of such persistence.

I hope this clears it up for you.

openthief on 8/12/2008 at 03:38

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Hello everybody,
I see that discussion is more and more intelligent and I could congratulate of that.

Reply to jtr7 :
So let me recall you that a concept (including UML for coding work) is major part of the work. With experiences, I have found that If you know how, when, and which code your will code, then it will for sure succeed. That s why the step of choosing engines and middleware is better if ti is long. When I started openThief, Bullet was for example not so well known. It is now recognized as the better. The reason to beleive my claims is clear : if you know what is open sources, the concept, ideology, you know that openTheif is a good idea. I cant tell my name on this forum as Ubi could claim. On the contrary, if you are interressed to work on openThief, I can send you my resume, and some links to my other projects by email if you send an email to openthief and if you do the same.
Actually, the dark engine atmosphere is reproducable. If you put Dark Engine in a chest, dont forget to put an old WinXP PC inside to be sure to be able to use it.
Now if you cant speak about Thief, open source and C++ seriously without a resume, it is not normal and you should reconsider your point of view. The Thief community want a game they could play as long as possible. They dont care about our coder resume.
And now, you are not obliged to participate to the discussion if you dont trust people with whom you speak. Let ask all the questions you want about C++, Thief or open source and you will see I know what I am speaking of.
If you interest is fast, you are not made for openThief at all. It is a long process because start from scratch. For example, I cant made my mind proposing Fmod for openThief as it is closed source and commercial.
Here it is, nice english.

Reply to ravynousHunter
If you cant consider the project without a demo or video, open thief is not for you. Just think that all the games you are playing starting from almost nothing when they started. Now an example of proof openThief is a solution : "BZFlag". Probaly around 9 years of life, full open source (no IDSoftware). Now, my resume is not important for this discussion as I dont plan to code a lot on openThief, as I said in the first topic.

Reply to Jarvis
I have NEVER said nor insinuate the only quality in a video game is graphical upgrades and new features. Do I ? where ? I dont care to do a modern game or not. I just see that physic gameplay or network for example are great features for Thief and the whole community should confirm. I just say that original thief would not work anymore one day on the next Windows... Thiefs have given me too the most entertaining video game experiences I've ever had. I want again and you too (probably). I want more exiting Thief games and you too (probably). And all these we will lost it if they are no full opensource project like openthief or OPDE. I am not high polygon fan, but now the original Thiefs looks bad for major part of the guy who had bought it. I dont speak of the hundred of guys in this forum, but the 100 000 probably more guys who bought and played Thief 1/2, the 90 000 who dont play anymore because they didnt like Thief 3 and they want simple update of the gameplay, graphics,... If you are ok with the original Thief, that s cool for you, but dont forget Thief community loose guys days after days. Now as I said (please read my topics), the lack of source code does not make a game better or not, but it enhance life time. Simply. And the more life time engine will be high, the more people will be able to play our lovely Thief. And you should care if you love so Thief ! To be able to entertain you long and seriously, we must use open sources.

Reply to Eddy :
Thanks for your link. I dont plan to search for your website if you dont give it to me. Sadly, this is a game dependant project if I understand right (you need artworks, levels from the game). Openthief dont plan to be game dependant. And sorry to correct you, but openThief is not nothing. You dont know everything. Regards.

Reply to Volca :
you said I was sceptic when I told 2 years old life for TDM. It simply means you are aware that it is a temporay project. If the Doom3 code si released, yes some peoples will retouch it. But no there wont be Doom3 eternal life as you said. Not sure we will see new shadows technique. Is is deep hard work and should perhaps need to reorganize structure.
You say you hope openThief will die. How sad are you. See. I will be much more intelligent and nice. I definitely dont hope OPDE will die just to be sure to be able to get/convert all the Fan Mission levels nd reload it by any project which could. I hope too we will be able to play those levels with OPDE, but I doubt it will arrive as closed to this point. Actually, having a lot of code at start is not a good idea for a long term team project. Now it is effectively hard to find a new admin for openThief when people like you and Newhorizon come just for spiting out on the project, just to assure the success of their personnal project. Is is disloyal and bad. If you dont like the idea of openThief and are afraid of concurrency, please let me search for the guy with fair play.
Regards

Reply to Judith :
I appreciate your intelligence. having the source code is effectively better to resolve crash. For an example, Doom3 was crashing on my latest Vista computer as it was developped for XP and Dx9. Here is a probelm openThief and OPDE could resolve easily using Ogre.

Reply to dSpair :
Here it is another guy approving the openThief point of view. TDM is also bad as it wont be able at all to load all the FM created for long. The FM must be PRESERVED and the only way is to fully convert them in open standard like Collada.

Reply to NewHorizon : You said you left discussion but actually you came back twice. So you dont do what you say. Nice to hear. openThief and OPDE are necessery because your "PRODUCT" (are you sure dont have commercial goals ?) is not standard compliant. A MOD is never a long term solution. The source code release was and is still not sure. Doom3 will be outdated compared to Ogre and Bullet. The interest will not be the same between those SDK. Actually there are many peoples who dont like at all to take old codes from industry, for example because they code with a very special way and dont like how other made. Open source community is much more open minded. I had an interview with ID and they even didnt know/try the middlewares usually used in industry. They are quite closed mind.
So now openThief and TDM are not really far. The big difference is nayway that openThief should run without absolutely no depedancies (no copyrighted artworks, no IDSoftware dll). You didnt reply as you probably dont know, but is confirms that it will probably not be able to deliver as a FULL standalone app. That is definitely a problem. You are wrong : Thief needs some kind of flashy graphics (expecially shadows, bloom,...) are very important even for game play. To finish, situation has changed since Quake 1/2 source released. At those time (10 years ago), there was no mature full open source solutions. Or it was bad engines. Nowadays, there is already solutions to do what Doom3 SDK do and even better (is there fluids in Doom3 physic engines ?). It is totally different. I advice you not to wait for Doom3 sources community update if it is released, and advice you to do it by yourself.
Here it is. Now if you are sure you will be able to release a total standalone game (including artwork), the "Dark Mod" name wont be relevant anymore ? Have you planned to renamed it ?
Regards
PS: I would accept your excuses for the bad words you had about me.