jtr7 on 9/12/2008 at 23:18
That is very cool, but...I don't want to purchase their game. The same could be said for any company that makes a generous or charitable gesture to improve some aspect of society.
I should state right now that there's little chance that I'd even be able to enjoy working with The Dark Mod much, anyway. WHY? I'm not set-up for much gaming...period, let alone creating any or all the virtual world-building ideas I've accumulated. I feel it would be more productive for me to let people know about the projects, or donate money to the team-effort to help with the cost of a website, equipment replacement, or something.
We of the Thief Wiki would like to have a nice (
http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/The_Dark_Mod) The Dark Mod page that would do the team vision justice rather than reading like a sidebar or footnote, for those who would first learn of it there, as well as those familiar with it. We'd like the page to describe the project accurately, in another effort to quell the continued confusion about it. We'd like the relevant wiki pages to keep the distinction clear, and the pages misinformation-free, about The Dark Mod tool-set (not a game!), Dark Radiant, and Open Dark Engine, and so on.
If people know of the project, see what the vision is, and how it's being constructed, the chances are better that they will offer their time to working with you all on it, if they are so inclined. How easy would it be for someone to jump right in?
New Horizon on 9/12/2008 at 23:56
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
In the very words it is arrogant because it assumes that the own way is the right. We're not talking about half a dozen projects here and especially the The DarkMod should take care not to accuse others of stealing manpower.
You are interpreting it as arrogant because there is prejudice amongst some in the T3Ed community who think that we, as a team, feel any project that doesn't serve TDM is unworthy, and that is simply not true. Without putting words in Sparhawk's mouth, I can tell you that all he meant was that there is nearly five years of work put into TDM....and Dark Radiant' two completely separate projects. Suggesting that the community find a way to unite similar projects? That's just common sense. STEALING manpower? Did I accuse anyone of doing that in this thread? Are you accusing us of stealing manpower? ANYONE, is free to choose to work on any project they wish. I simply said, with NO ill intent, that it is far better for the community to focus on a smaller number of projects, than it is to repeat, I repeat, repeat the same work all over again for another five or 6 years. This isn't arrogance, or selfishness, it's common sense. If it's a crime to suggest that the community would be better off actually finishing a project...rather than having two identical projects running at the same time...well, I'll just shut my stupid mouth right now. Really, what would I know...I've only been with TDM for the whole five years.
Quote:
If there is hardly a reason for fearing the OpenThief thing I wonder why you guys reject it so vehemently. But I'm not talking about the status of his work or anyone's work, I just said that judging about the quality or benefit of projects should be a no-no most of the time unless they obviously contradict the very blurry common sense of what Thief is.
You're missing the whole point of this thread. There ISN'T a project to fear or reject. lol What IS being rejected is this rather arrogant attempt to
'get someone else to do all the work' on a project that apparently doesn't have a line of code, a plan, or any concept of how much work they're talking about. What IS being rejected is the blatant misinformation being slung out by Openthief, his non-existent team, or anyone else for that matter, who could be helping OPDE or TDM to reach their goals and get completed projects into the hands of players all that much faster.
I really don't care what you or anyone else thinks about my comments on this matter. I have done my service in the Thief community, as have many others who commented in this thread. Thief 2X, T3Ed, and TDM. For a time I worked on them all at the same time. My thoughts and many on our team are based experience, not arrogance....and I resent your thinly veiled accusations.
Baal on 10/12/2008 at 00:14
Quote Posted by jtr7
If people know of the project, see what the vision is, and how it's being constructed, the chances are better that they will offer their time to working with you all on it, if they are so inclined. How easy would it be for someone to jump right in?
If you mean working with The Dark Mod that's already possible. The editor is freely available: (
http://darkradiant.sourceforge.net/) http://darkradiant.sourceforge.net/
You can use it with the Saint Lucia demo (and Doom 3 of course).
And here's the mods wiki page:(
http://modetwo.net/darkmod/wiki/index.php/Main_Page) http://modetwo.net/darkmod/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
lost_soul on 10/12/2008 at 00:15
Some of the posters in this thread have expressed concerns with the Dark Mod somehow being "attached" to Doom 3 forever. This is not true. There were two Quake 3 mods (Tremulous and Urban Terror) which broke off from their commercial parents when the Q3 source came out. They are independent games now. Many games have also been built on the Id Software open engines such as Nexuiz, OpenArena, Alien Arena, Freedoom, a quake 2 based paintball game who's name escapes me and i'm sure i've missed some others.
jtr7 on 10/12/2008 at 00:29
Is it...not true...that in order for one to experience what The Dark Mod offers, one must purchase Doom 3? How long before one can skip the purchasing part?
See, more continuing confusion.:tsktsk:
New Horizon on 10/12/2008 at 01:06
Quote Posted by jtr7
Is it...
not true...that in order for one to experience what
The Dark Mod offers, one must purchase
Doom 3? How long before one can skip the purchasing part?
Yes, right now you must purchase Doom 3...but it's cheap now. You could probably buy it used for under $10....and why would it be so bad to give id software money? They are one of the few respectable gaming companies left who still give a damn about the modding community. I can't give id software enough praise for their support of the modding community, they have pretty much released all their source code over the years...they're firm believers in the sharing of ideas! This, in my mind, is enough reason to put out a few dollars for their game. It doesn't matter if you don't want to play it, consider it supporting the ideals of what they have stood for. If there had been no doom 3, it's quite possible that we wouldn't have even begun making TDM all those years ago.
Quote:
See, more continuing confusion.:tsktsk:
I'm not sure why this is confusing. We have provided this type of information many times over the years. :(
As we've been saying, after the D3 source code is fully released there will no doubt be an effort made to separate TDM from D3. It will take some work to separate D3 from TDM of course, obviously there are a lot of shared resources...so that could take some time...6 months...maybe a bit longer after the source code is released...it's hard to say until we have the source code. Until we get the full source code from id, people will need to buy D3....but with it being so cheap right now, I don't see this as a setback.
Doom 3 was the only engine that we found to be closest to having an updated Dark Engine feeling, out of the box, when you put some proper textures in a map. It also allowed us to take the already open sourced GTK radiant and start building our own editor from that. :) When you start a project like this on a solid foundation, it helps immensely. I highly endorse supporting id software....they're one of the good guys.
jtr7 on 10/12/2008 at 02:00
Sorry, this is what I think adds to the confusion:
Quote Posted by lost_soul
...expressed concerns with the Dark Mod somehow being "attached" to Doom 3 forever. This is not true.
Clarification, please? When the source is released, I won't HAVE to buy
Doom 3, and I only SHOULD buy
Doom 3 to support ID?
I, too, have been frustrated at the constant misinformation and repetition of it. Since I do not anticipate participating in any Dark Mod project for a looooong time, I have no desire to make the purchase, and have had no deep reason to follow the project closely--rather, I admire from a distance and applaud the milestones.:)
Lord Gervasius on 10/12/2008 at 02:39
people are still playing thief 10 years after it was released. This is a testament to the replayability of the series. I HIGHLY doubt that darkmod will be dead in 3 years because the doom 3 engine will be outdated. I don't even think the doom 3 engine will be outdated. But I guess that is where opinion takes root. I personally don't care if thief ever looks as good as tomb raider its still a million times better. Although it would be nice to see some gleaming tatas in all that dynamic lighting you devs are always getting riled up about.
BTW I skipped the last 3 pages of this because I'm lazy so if my post makes no sense in this thread anymore...my apologies. :p
New Horizon on 10/12/2008 at 02:40
Quote Posted by jtr7
Clarification, please? When the source is released, I won't HAVE to buy
Doom 3, and I only SHOULD buy
Doom 3 to support ID?
As of right now, since 'id software' has not yet made the source code public, if someone wants to help with TDM, play our 2 officially released beta missions, build maps with the existing assets, play maps built by fans with the saint lucia assets, or simply be prepared for our beta release in 2009....they will need to buy Doom 3.
Once again.
When 'id software' releases the
'full' source code to their Doom 3 engine, then and only then will it be possible to decouple TDM from the commercial game. This will require some work, as there are shared assets that will need to be replaced. Having the game in advance simply means people don't have to wait for us or some other enthusiastic individual to do that before they start playing or making missions.
Renzatic on 10/12/2008 at 02:41
Right now, and in the near future, you'll probably have to buy Doom 3 to play TDM. It's still tied to the engine through a bunch of little assets no one wants to take the time to remake. Stuff like light textures, a zombie model or two, a few sound effects here and there, shaders. Tons and tons of simple things that really shouldn't be tackled until all the bigger projects are done. After all, why go through the trouble of making something when you have immediate access to another something inside D3 that does the exact same thing.
Eventually, once the source is released and the mod is out in earnest, either the TDM team or The Community At Large can go back in and start remaking these things to separate the mod from D3 completely. There isn't anything too terribly difficult about it (as far as I know), just time consuming and tedious.
