Boxsmith on 2/5/2011 at 13:56
Quote Posted by Yakoob
Or maybe Brits?
oldie but a goodie
CCCToad on 2/5/2011 at 14:22
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
Count me in the doc frog and Tocky camp, a nasty piece of of work to be sure but worth all the horror and bloodshed since? And will it actually achieve anything? Doubtful.
No matter whether you believe it was worth it, I can say that it will make no difference in our current wars. His network just isn't relevant anymore. If you believe the CIA, there's only about ninety members of Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. Thats the entire country, not one district.
CCCToad on 2/5/2011 at 14:28
Quote Posted by heywood
a. The US may have had the ability to take out Osama bin Laden for some time, but the administration either feared a Taliban backlash or feared his death would lead to waning support for the war among the American public. So they kept him around until deciding to end the war, and now his death is part of the exit strategy. They can start pulling out now and still claim some small measure of success.
b. The Pakistanis have been secretly protecting bin Laden and playing both sides. Upon learning that the US will start pulling out, they worried that they would have to take sides and fight al Qaeda and the Taliban on their own, and/or worried about losing US military aid. So they played their trump card in a desperate attempt to get the US to continue in Afghanistan and continue paying the bill.
Both are true. The second one has been written about pretty extensively in American press. Pakistan has been playing both sides of the isle for some time, accepting bribes from both US intelligence services and the Taliban/Al-Qaeda alliance. While I can not confirm the first one, I've heard rumors from friends who are part of the SF and black ops world that we have known where Osama was for the past few years. Considering where he was found, there may be some credence to this. I imagine it took quite a bit of political wrangling in order to launch an effective raid that deep into Pakistan without tipping off Osama's allies.
Gingerbread Man on 2/5/2011 at 16:11
Quote Posted by CCCToad
No matter whether you believe it was worth it, I can say that it will make no difference in our current wars. His network just isn't relevant anymore. If you believe the CIA, there's only about ninety members of Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. Thats the entire country, not one district.
My concern is that without a Figurehead, no matter how relevant or irrelevant the man was in actual fact, al Qaida can easily turn into Anonymous. That is to say, an undifferentiated mass of bored, reasonably well-off, and disenfranchised kids. Disenfranchised for reasons of their own invention, perhaps, but still. We've known for a long time that the majority of these terrorist "organizations" are really just loose associations of people with vaguely similar agendas who like to use an umbrella term for reasons of Gang membership, Public Relations, and whatever sort of logistical support they can get. Nothing has changed in this regard.
Except for the fact that now the hydra has a million heads. And sure, they'll be disorganized and clumsy, but so is a rabid dog in a kindergarten. I guess I figure that this will essentially stop the larger networking for a few weeks until someone even more vicious shows up. And lives another thirty years or more. Hooray. Clouds for every silver lining.
Mostly this morning I'm just bugged at the exaggeration and whatnot. It really would make about as much sense if someone were to declare that all our alcohol and drug troubles are a thing of the past now that Hunter S Thompson has shot himself.
Shakey-Lo on 2/5/2011 at 16:13
Quote Posted by Ostriig
And in turn...
(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13257217) BBC News - UK vigilance urged after Osama Bin Laden death
Here we are, we can't even rejoice in being rid of the shitbag without added fear of what may come as a follow-up. At first I was "fuck yes", and then this hit me. I think this is the first time in years when I'm really worried at the prospect.
perfect. so we beat the end boss in the war on terror, and as a result should be afraid of more terrorism. gg.
Gingerbread Man on 2/5/2011 at 16:16
THE END
?
MUAHAHAHA
Yeah, it's a bit like a shit Sega title sometimes
WE'RE SORRY BUT MORE TERRIST IS IN ANOTHER CASTLE
demagogue on 2/5/2011 at 16:32
I watched the planes hit the WTC walking to class and watched them go down about 15 blocks from me.
I think it's important some accountability comes out of this. There's been lots of times in history where the masterminds of mass murder die of old age with total impunity, and it just breeds complete cynicism and faith in accountability. So in that respect I think this was important. A trial conviction would have obviously sent the message better, but I'm not naive about how difficult and risky that would have been.
As for the greater problem of terrorism, I read an article that the Al Qaida organization has been in disarray for a while as it was, but in any event I think taking out Bin Laden & the leadership of radical groups is dwarfed by the potential of the Arab Spring in the long run. If people live in a democracy where they can voice their grievances politically and let out all that steam in public domain speech and assembly and protests, I think that would do more to deflate the radicalism of the young & disenchanted as much as anything, looking over the long term.
Muzman on 2/5/2011 at 16:47
I do find it sadly ironic that the country Osama was circuitously fighting for is the one least likely to fall to this domino effect, is arguably the worst of all the Arab regimes and has the most US influence in it at the same time.
fett on 2/5/2011 at 16:57
Quote Posted by demagogue
As for the greater problem of terrorism, I read an article that the Al Qaida organization has been in disarray for a while as it was, but in any event I think taking out Bin Laden & the leadership of radical groups is dwarfed by the potential of the Arab Spring in the long run. If people live in a democracy where they can voice their grievances politically and let out all that steam in public domain speech and assembly and protests, I think that would do more to deflate the radicalism of the young & disenchanted as much as anything, looking over the long term.
This. Though you're talking gibberish to a group of people who believe in a spiritual paradise run by a sky genie.
Here's what will NOT come out of this: A hard look at American foreign policy. We've hopped into bed with every potentially dangerous religious nut between the Ivory Coast and Afganistan for greed, power, and the mis-guided notion that we can fix things. That pisses people off, and rightly so. Especially when we leave them hanging once we get ours and get out. We keep fucking with people, people who are crazy mad enough to fly planes into buildings, and no one ever seriously examines why that might be, other than to call them crazy religious nuts who hate freedom and enjoy playing chicken with skyscrapers. Like Sting said, "History will teach us nothing."
The examination of cause and effect is so fucking warped in the U.S. that no one can stop cheering "USA!!" long enough to realize that we did this shit to ourselves. How is it that so few can watch the chanting crowds outside the White House and see EXACTLY THE SAME THING as on 9/11 in the streets of Arabic communities all over the world.
Fuck me. I'm moving to Canada. :mad:
