Trance on 29/2/2008 at 12:15
Quote Posted by catbarf
Er, no. System Shock was released for $80. With inflation, it's significantly more.
Um, WTF? I got System Shock in April '94 for $40.
EvaUnit02 on 29/2/2008 at 12:22
Quote Posted by Papy
I was also there in the 80's (I'm 8 years older than you). I won't deny there was ads in the 80's. If you read my previous post, you'll see that I even said this! Although some magazines, like "Jeux & Stratégie", had very few, others like "Tilt" were full of it.
Perhaps yours and Jason's experiences differ because of the parts of the world in which you lived? Nth. America was dominated by the NES and I'm guessing that in European your home computers, like Commodore, Amiga, etc. reigned supreme.
Jason Moyer on 29/2/2008 at 13:09
North America was dominated by the Atari 2600, Commodore 64, Apple ][, and later the NES, all of which had incredibly great games that sold very well and were marketed aggressively, probably more aggressively then AAA titles are now (Pac Man and Pole Position TV shows?).
I can't say much about the games released in Europe or how advertising and such was handled, but it is worth noting that The Sentinel was released as a budget title (same with a lot of other classic British computer games actually), so it's not particularly surprising that it wasn't marketed to death.
Anyway, Papy, if I get some time I'll respond to you point-by-point, altho overall I think I see where you're coming from. The only main disagreement I'd have is your assessment that the Gothic and Trackmania series are particularly good games, and since enough people here would want to murder me if I gave my opinion on those games, I'll pass.
BTW, Papy, if you have the time, I would be interested in some recommendations if you have any for 80's Brit emulation stuff. I can't honestly say I've ever fiddled around with Micro software or anything, so it would be interesting to see what you guys were into on that side of the pond.
Papy on 2/3/2008 at 18:50
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
North America was dominated by the Atari 2600, Commodore 64, Apple ][, and later the NES, all of which had incredibly great games that sold very well and were marketed aggressively, probably more aggressively then AAA titles are now (Pac Man and Pole Position TV shows?).
I think you got it wrong... The Pac-Man TV series was not about marketing a video game, it was about using a video game to market a TV show. It was, for example, like the movies Doom or Mortal Kombat.
I was in Canada up to 1983. After that, I moved to France. The difference between the two places was with access to diversity (a lot more diversity in France) and the number of arcades (a lot more arcades in Canada), not with marketing. Both in Canada and in France, ads, outside video game magazines, were almost inexistent. There were obviously some for Christmas, as with every other toys, but nothing more. I was not watching US TV or reading US magazine in 1983 (I didn't speak English), but I don't think the situation there was different. Yes, you can now find those ads on YouTube, but they were not as omnipresent as you seem to think. I discovered those ads on YouTube a few months ago, not 25 years ago. Anyway, I still really don't see how you can claim that games were marketed more aggressively than current AAA titles. It just doesn't make sense to me. (BTW, I hope you understand that ads are only a small part of good marketing)
As for Gothic or Trackmania not being good games, that's pretty much a matter of taste, don't you think? But just out of curiosity, what don't you like with those games? Of course it won't change what I think about those two, but if you want me to share some hints on good games from the 80s, I'd better know what kind of game you like.
june gloom on 2/3/2008 at 21:37
Quote Posted by Trance
Um, WTF? I got System Shock in April '94 for $40.
Was that the floppy version or the CD version, though?
Quote Posted by Papy
it was about using a video game to market a TV show
I had to read that sentence three times to understand it. So, for the benefit of others who may not get it, I think you mean that they use the popularity of the existing games to market the TV show (or movie) based on them, correct?
Papy on 3/3/2008 at 10:23
Yes, this is correct. I guess I should have said "using a popular video game character".
Jason Moyer on 3/3/2008 at 13:01
Quote Posted by Papy
But just out of curiosity, what don't you like with those games? Of course it won't change what I think about those two, but if you want me to share some hints on good games from the 80s, I'd better know what kind of game you like.
I respect the writing in the Gothic series, but I find the controls and interface clunky to the point of ruining the games for me. I'm also not a big fan of third person cameras in single player 3-D RPG's; whenever it makes sense, I vastly prefer seeing things from the eyes of the protaganist (whether it's an RPG, FPS, racing title, whatever).
Trackmania is quite awesome, just not my cup of tea. I'd rate it very highly for what it is, but fantasy/arcade style racing games don't have a lot of longevity for me.
As far as what I like? Simulations, first person shooters/RPG's/hybrids, most of the classic arcade genres (shmups, arena shmups, run-n-gun, platformers, etc). Computer wise, the games I always loved on my Apple ][ were Robot Odyssey, SubLogic Jet, Wings of Fury, Wizardry/Bard's Tale/Dragon Wars, Knights of Legend, text adventures (Infocom, of course, but the Mist was also quite good), Montezuma's Revenge, etc. The only Micro game I specifically know I need to try is Geoff Crammond's Revs (and also the Sentinel, probably) but other than that I really know jack all about the 80's European gaming scene.
Gaph on 5/3/2008 at 07:54
Quote Posted by The_Raven
Oh god! Last time I checked, those surveys were completely voluntary. Anyone who as taken a stats course will know why the data from such surveys are unreliable and unrepresentative of the true population. Now other companies are going to start using the same data. I don't like the sounds of that one bit.
Found it, it was a Gabe Newell interview by RPS.
Quote:
RPS: How has Steam changed how you approach development?Gabe: The main thing is that anything that has helped us become closer to our customers has been a benefit, whether that be on the product development side or on the support side. The early thing that was hugely beneficial was the hardware stats – we can be in meetings with Microsoft of EA and they’ll say, “You guys have more information on what customers have on their PCs than we do.” Intel will regularly email questions to be added to the survey.
(
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=617)
But I forgot where I was going with this.
Trance on 5/3/2008 at 14:14
Quote Posted by dethtoll
Was that the floppy version or the CD version, though?
The CD version didn't come out until November.
