sparhawk on 20/11/2009 at 11:44
Quote Posted by Bakerman
Fair enough, but I think that *would* require some level design concessions - if the height of the hole is slightly wrong, the player's eye point when crouched wouldn't be able to see through it.
If thelevel geoemetry is wrogn the player can not climb taht wall, or reach something important. Well, that's why you should test before you release a mission. :)
Bakerman on 20/11/2009 at 14:29
Quote Posted by sparhawk
If the level geometry is wrong the player can not climb that wall, or reach something important. Well, that's why you should test before you release a mission. :)
Fair point. jtr7 seemed to have some concerns about that though, so I was trying to design a fairly flexible solution that wouldn't rely on all keyholes being the same height, etc. It does seem like a nice elegant solution to just have holes in doors... :p. As long as the player could actually get the camera close enough to do anything vaguely useful. I've never really tried leaning into walls, so I don't know how close you can come. I guess a solution could be designed with this in mind.
The Shroud on 20/11/2009 at 20:14
Yeah, they'd need to make the head's collision model the right size, but that shouldn't be too difficult.
sparhawk on 21/11/2009 at 06:32
Quote Posted by Bakerman
Fair point. jtr7 seemed to have some concerns about that though, so I was trying to design a fairly flexible solution that wouldn't rely on all keyholes being the same height, etc. It does seem like a nice elegant solution to just have holes in doors... :p. As long as the player could actually get the camera close enough to do anything vaguely useful. I've never really tried leaning into walls, so I don't know how close you can come. I guess a solution could be designed with this in mind.
Well, leaving holes in the doors would be an ugly solution as a general design pattern, but for a specific mission which serves to playtest it, it would be sufficient. IMO the image above, with the hole in the wall from T1, already shows the problem anyway, because that hole is big, compared to a lock, and it still ist only moderately usefull.
Personally I think that peeping through locks is only usefull if you really put in a camera into the hole, so that the player can see something more than just that one degree view cone (if it is that much at all), but then it is quite unrealistic (mich might be still better).
The Shroud on 21/11/2009 at 07:00
Quote Posted by sparhawk
Well, leaving holes in the doors would be an ugly solution as a general design pattern, but for a specific mission which serves to playtest it, it would be sufficient. IMO the image above, with the hole in the wall from T1, already shows the problem anyway, because that hole is big, compared to a lock, and it still ist only moderately usefull.
The main difference is that in previous Thiefs, due to the player's collision-model, you can only get your camera so close to a wall. If you were able to press the camera right up against a lock, to the point where the keyhole fills your entire screen, then your view would be much clearer.
Incidentally, I'd like to state for the record (as I have much earlier in this thread) that I very much agree keyhole-peering, much like body-awareness, is not top-priority as far as new additions go. I do think it could add meaningful gameplay but when it comes to priorities, AI is number one for me.
jtr7 on 21/11/2009 at 07:48
Quote Posted by sparhawk
Well, leaving holes in the doors would be an ugly solution as a general design pattern, but for a specific mission which serves to playtest it, it would be sufficient. IMO the image above, with the hole in the wall from T1, already shows the problem anyway, because that hole is big, compared to a lock, and it still ist only moderately usefull.
Personally I think that peeping through locks is only usefull if you really put in a camera into the hole, so that the player can see something more than just that one degree view cone (if it is that much at all), but then it is quite unrealistic (mich might be still better).
Yep. I think it's too weird and adds less than the effort is worth.
Beleg Cúthalion on 21/11/2009 at 20:42
I just went outside and peered through the keyhole. I saw more. I must be god.
Seriously, you're not presenting this as a proof for this feature being 1. useless in general and 2. impossible to implement into a computer game, are you? I'm sorry if not, it just looked to me like that.
New Horizon on 21/11/2009 at 21:01
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
I just went outside and peered through the keyhole. I saw more. I must be god.
It's going to vary from room to room. If a particular room is 'longer' more of the room would be visible in the distance. Thickness of the door will make a difference. This was simply one scenario from an ingame situation.
In any case. I looked through a keyhole and saw pretty much what I posted here. Depends on the room on the other side of that door.
The Shroud on 22/11/2009 at 00:46
Quote Posted by New Horizon
It's going to vary from room to room. If a particular room is 'longer' more of the room would be visible in the distance. Thickness of the door will make a difference.
True.
